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 Sugestions for the Underdark

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Rickshaw
Leencalron
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Leencalron

Leencalron


Posts : 284
Join date : 2015-03-05

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PostSubject: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 11:35 am

So after getting settled with the toolset I'd like to open this thread for suggestions specifically aimed at the Underdark. I've already collected a few ideas from some of the players that frequent the UD but more suggestions are always appreciated. Currently I have a long list of changes I'm working on so I wouldn't expect anything overnight but anything posted here will be considered.

Right now I have the following listed (Not all approved)

Bug Fixes
Retyping Monsters
Quaggoth Spawns
Szith Morcane Interior bugged chairs
Line of Sight Issues Battled Tunnels
Renaming Areas
Return to Last Location bugs

Balance changes
Roper Changes
Stone Giant Changes

New Zones
New leveling Zone 8-12
New leveling Zone 16-20
Expanding Sschindylryn
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Rickshaw

Rickshaw


Posts : 478
Join date : 2013-09-28
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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 12:48 pm

Make the entrance/exits to the Underdark more hostile/dangerous to anyone seeking to use them, be it through scripts, hostile mobs, or other such things.

People need to stop treating the Underdark like a second home/picnic location, and account for the fact that some of the most dangerous aspects of the Underdark are found where it joins the surface due to prevalence of prey.

Also, more environmental dangers in general. Gas, cave ins, pools of acid etc.
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Dawizahr

Dawizahr


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Location : Atlanta, GA, USA

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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 11:19 pm

Fixing or Redoing Meazle Marsh: I know it's not a high priority, but that zone is seriously buggy when it comes to line of sight. It's almost impossible to do anything there as it stands.
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Leencalron

Leencalron


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Join date : 2015-03-05

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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyMon Aug 17, 2015 11:42 pm

Dawizahr wrote:
Fixing or Redoing Meazle Marsh: I know it's not a high priority, but that zone is seriously buggy when it comes to line of sight. It's almost impossible to do anything there as it stands.

Had an idea or two for the Marsh but I guess I hadn't noticed the line of sight issues. I'll check it out and see what I can do.

Rickshaw wrote:
Make the entrance/exits to the Underdark more hostile/dangerous to anyone seeking to use them, be it through scripts, hostile mobs, or other such things.

People need to stop treating the Underdark like a second home/picnic location, and account for the fact that some of the most dangerous aspects of the Underdark are found where it joins the surface due to prevalence of prey.

Also, more environmental dangers in general. Gas, cave ins, pools of acid etc.

This is kind of a tricky subject as the UD does not have a consistent playerbase. I can totally understand some of the players who venture up to the surface frequently due to lack of anything interesting happening down here. For that reason I would have to get the DM teams opinion on making the entrances more difficult to traverse.

As for the hostile terrain/environment... again its kind of a balance between lore and playability. Adding too many environmental hazards may just be a bigger inconvenience than its worth considering just how large the UD is. So a sort of compromise that might be good is adding 'shortcut' areas which are filled with the aforementioned hazards. Sort of a risk reward type of thing to get around the UD faster but with a risk.
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Rickshaw

Rickshaw


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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyTue Aug 18, 2015 4:13 am

Leencalron wrote:

This is kind of a tricky subject as the UD does not have a consistent playerbase. I can totally understand some of the players who venture up to the surface frequently due to lack of anything interesting happening down here. For that reason I would have to get the DM teams opinion on making the entrances more difficult to traverse.  

I can understand players doing so myself, having been guilty of the very same on low activity days. I do think currently it is far, far too easy however and needs a bit of a gentle nudge so that unless you're extremely canny, you won't be getting in/out without at least the need to promptly find a safe rest spot.

Leencalron wrote:

So a sort of compromise that might be good is adding 'shortcut' areas which are filled with the aforementioned hazards.

I can get behind this. Currently the UD doesn't feel quite as oppressive and innately hostile an environment as it should be, but care should certainly be taken not to make it actively horrendous to play in.
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DM FOE

DM FOE


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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyWed Aug 19, 2015 6:22 pm

I am pretty sure I speak for the entire UD staff when I say that you can and should make the entrances and exits to the Underdark both longer and much more perilous. Additionally the Underdark can be made a much more extreme environment, if you want to devote time to this it would be much appreciated.

There definitely needs to be some room for lower level players to actually survive to PC maturity, but the Underdark should be very perilous and full of more dangerous creatures and more challenging and deadly environments.

It is just lore that the UD is like this and I think most of the UD players want that to be represented. At least from the things I've heard over time.
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Leencalron

Leencalron


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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyWed Aug 19, 2015 6:47 pm

DM FOE wrote:
I am pretty sure I speak for the entire UD staff when I say that you can and should make the entrances and exits to the Underdark both longer and much more perilous. Additionally the Underdark can be made a much more extreme environment, if you want to devote time to this it would be much appreciated.

There definitely needs to be some room for lower level players to actually survive to PC maturity, but the Underdark should be very perilous and full of more dangerous creatures and more challenging and deadly environments.

It is just lore that the UD is like this and I think most of the UD players want that to be represented. At least from the things I've heard over time.


Alright since making the entrances more difficult is on the table, I have a few ideas for that. Beholders as a start, I think its kind of a shame they are reduced to farming mobs due to essences. I mean Beholders are one of the iconic D&D nasties and our versions are somewhat neutered due to a lack of the proper rays (Looking at you disintegrate, flesh to stone, and finger of death) and the whole save stacking issue. Bumping them up to their proper difficulty and swapping them with the orc map might solve that entrances problem. However it does make essences of power even more rare(one of the reasons Roper changes are on my list as well).

The Minotaur/Cave entrance is probably the easiest right now. Bumping up the search DC on the cave door and putting another buffer between the maze and cave with a new high CR monster might help. I'll have to look into what kind of nasty to place there.

The other entrance I know of seems fairly well guarded already, I've never been able to make that trip due to lack of requirements and the mobs around it. It could still use a little more beefing up I suppose. Once my current list is thinned a bit I'll take a look at fortifying the UD's entrances.

I suppose another question should be what level do people want the exits to be balanced around? 15? 20? Even 25 or higher?
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maseoo

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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyThu Aug 20, 2015 4:03 am

I don't play at all, but I read the forums, so I'd also like to mention that the duergar tavern near the illithid compound is very buggy if you come from the sewer entrance.
Its hard to get anywhere from the stairs even using the WASD keys, and the door locks itself I think?
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DM FOE

DM FOE


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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyThu Aug 20, 2015 5:31 pm

Quote :
Alright since making the entrances more difficult is on the table, I have a few ideas for that. Beholders as a start, I think its kind of a shame they are reduced to farming mobs due to essences. I mean Beholders are one of the iconic D&D nasties and our versions are somewhat neutered due to a lack of the proper rays (Looking at you disintegrate, flesh to stone, and finger of death) and the whole save stacking issue. Bumping them up to their proper difficulty and swapping them with the orc map might solve that entrances problem. However it does make essences of power even more rare(one of the reasons Roper changes are on my list as well).

The Beholder cave could be expanded and some more difficult beholders could be added. This way knowledgeable UDers could still skirt the dangerous beholders with knowledge (or a survival skill check?) and others can still farm and fight for rp. I agree that Beholders are underutilized as nemeses and this is a good opportunity. Perhaps some sort of expanded area with a more beholder settlement feel? If you like I can forward you some information on them (if you do not have it).

Quote :
The Minotaur/Cave entrance is probably the easiest right now. Bumping up the search DC on the cave door and putting another buffer between the maze and cave with a new high CR monster might help. I'll have to look into what kind of nasty to place there.
Yes I think this entrance to the UD should be extended and greatly increased in danger. This is because it drops you in a deep and perilous section of the UD so it should be a nasty fight to even get there.

Quote :
The other entrance I know of seems fairly well guarded already, I've never been able to make that trip due to lack of requirements and the mobs around it. It could still use a little more beefing up I suppose. Once my current list is thinned a bit I'll take a look at fortifying the UD's entrances.
Yeah that one is a little well guarded and also has a lockpick requirement etc. I think it should be increased danger wise but it is the lowest priority.

Quote :
I suppose another question should be what level do people want the exits to be balanced around? 15? 20? Even 25 or higher?
Of this I am not sure. To a degree you could use your own judgement but perhaps there should be a higher difficulty. One answer might be that there should be some varied areas with a centerpiece of serious difficulty. I think that maybe the Tybold mine exit might should be extended and pumped up danger wise but maybe not require one to be epic to use. But then the other exits should be made much more dangerous. I think the general idea is just that atm it is a bit too easy to enter and exit the UD.
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Leencalron

Leencalron


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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyThu Aug 20, 2015 6:58 pm

Addressing maseoo first, I'm aware of the one way lock on that door and I think it’s a fairly cheap and frustrating feature. I'll probably change it to be locked on both sides instead. As for the WASD I'll take a look at it but click movement is always safer to utilize due to latency.



On Beholders, I have already thought of a few plans for that including the possibility of expanding their area to cover multiple floors leading down to the Lowerdark (Which I have other plans for). I like the idea of a settlement but I'm not terribly familiar with that aspect of beholders. If you have resources please send them FOE and I'll use them as reference. I imagine the current beholder lair will remain roughly the same and the beholders themselves will be buffed to include the other eye rays. Perhaps the lower levels will feature higher DC's and/or other specialized beholders.



Another subject is the idea of the different Z levels of the underdark. Right now we have a few areas named "upperdark" so I assume everything else mid or lower. I'll need to map the UD and get an idea of the layout first, then areas could be designated as Upper, Mid, or Lowerdark respectively. As I understand it generally the lowerdark is the most dangerous while Mid is the majority where most denizens live and upper is the places that touch the surface. While it may be more complicated to view on a map or visualize I don't think the current UD really makes great use of potential vertical space. Or maybe the maps are just displayed in a way that makes it seem mostly flat. Not sure but it might be worth messing with to get a better 'feel' if we're already going to play with the difficulty to make it lore accurate.
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Avarson

Avarson


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PostSubject: Re: Sugestions for the Underdark   Sugestions for the Underdark EmptyThu Aug 20, 2015 9:13 pm

There is a dificult to use tileset that features a lot of verticality in a cave setting. You will need to play with it a lot to get a feel for it, the tiles aren't clearly labeled or marked and its hard to see how everything connects without playing with it a lot. (It is... deep caves? maybe. Been a few months since I looked) That will get you depth on a per-map basis.

It's hard to make multiple maps in a row seem stacked vertically, but it could probably be done with clever uses of the chasams tileset.
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