surfacers in the underdark

My character (human) has a complicated and serious RP reason for entering the underdark. Not only that, but he is the type to make friends and seek allies; at the very least he's not out to make any enemies and actively seeks patronage or at least toleration from the ruling drow houses and/or other UD powerbases. He doesn't want to invade or spy or any sort of PvP thing.

Is it possible for him to eventually make his way to the drow camp and enter without being jumped? I guess I'm asking about the tone of the RP in the underdark. Are people willing to entertain a human as long as he's careful/useful? Is it just flat out hostile to all surfacers, or is it possible to win over some drow as a surfacer? Is there a way to walk the streets of the camp and the caverns around without simply being killed on sight? etc. I know there's precedent for humans in Faerunian drow cities, but it is a rare circumstance indeed, and I'm not sure how things are handled with the drow on Dalelands Beyond.

Dannjl would truly love to make his base of operations in the underdark, and is definately developing the skills required to do so (self sufficience and darkvision...), but if there's no realistic way I can RP with the Lolthite/Vhearunite drow, I'm going to have to be very careful.

Well generally iv found if the drow come across a human down in the underdark they will usually do one of two things depending on the drow present. Make the human a slave or sacrifice/kill it especially if theres a priestess nearby who thinks she's behind on her quota or the drow are feeling very drow-like.
The drow generally see themselves as superior to all so the only real toleration they do is the amount they give to their slaves.

I'm sure it might be possible to become a merc but can see it being hard and even then a lot of drow would probably still treat you like an unclaimed slave

Think of it it this way, if you were a bunny rabbit and ventured into a cave of wolves. What do you think would happen? Yes it is possible they might already be full and not hungry, but then again, they might be starving.

If you come down into the Drow Refugee Camp when you're a human,



...you're gonna have a bad time.

Hmm, that is definately dissapointing, but I understand. If there was a massive drow city sprawling across the underdark at the height of it's power, there might be some humans kicking around freely. As far as I understand it, though, the current drow settlement is a refugee camp; someplace with a notably tenser atmosphere...

I pictured working as a mercenary for a powerful drow house to give me the chance to explore the underdark, feel out it's politics, and have SOME sort of leverage/protection against the drow, so I wasn't constantly having to kill or run from every one I came across. I'm not entirely familiar with drow society, or how they handle mercenaries; the accounts in the FR novels I've read have hardly been consisitent. Even the concept of a "temporary slave" might work for me; selling my total obediance and social defference for a time in exchange for payment and protections similar to what would be provided to a favoured house slave. I could even consider working for the temple, though it seems to me that a politically opportunistic house would be far more likely to hire a human than the church of Lolth...

If something like that isn't possible, what about a splinter faction of drow society? Would it be worth my time to try and make IC contact with something like the Bregan D'aerth, or are they also dangerously xenophobic? In general, what would be the best way for a human to find tolerance within drow society without resorting to carte blanche slavery?

I don't really have an interest in playing a drow (or any exclusively underdark race, not yet anyways), or limiting myself entirely to their culture, but my character wants as free reign of the underdark as possible to do his exploring -he seeks a hidden location- thus needing some tolerance from at least some drow, and I also want a way to get into the awesomeness that is Drowness, even just a little. The lore and the roleplay that seems to go on down there are pretty appealing.

The camp is a lot of competing personalities and demonstration of cruelty, even if you were accepted(as a slave) you would still be kicked around and humiliated if you were lucky. Trying to act with any manner of independence or personal power or freedom would read as an affront to the current hierarchy and you'd quickly suffer as result. Avoiding the camp will probably have a similar effect depending on how well you're able to avoid notice or escape capture.

As for the other Drow city, I am not sure if you could can get there without the 'starting location' port from the gate guardian, and looking at the Velkyn's rp they probably wouldn't accept you too readily either, although I don't know how they might react to you if you demonstrated some skill or effectiveness. The other issue is that there isn't a whole lot to do there as of yet.

If you can demonstrate that you have some kind of skill or usefulness, that might be your only hope of existing in the camp or greater UD(as a known person), and you certainly would not be unmolested. Even if you were adopted as a rothe the Yath's would most likely quickly grow tired of you even if you were effective or useful, and some of them would outright be extremely hostile, especially if you were aiding their enemies.

Rp in the camp is rough.

Kivvil found in the UD. Option 1. flee and you might escape, Option 2. death, Option 3 bleed for the alter of Malla lolth. Option 4 become a slave for a time and later experience one or all of options 1 through 3.

Drow do not take kindly to surfacers, especially when they are found in the UD. There are some races that are hired as mercs but even they are treated badly and or often become slaves.

Drow perhaps said it best above.

There is some lore of Drow merchant clans usually males going to the surface and trading with humans but it would never happen in the underdark or with a FM unless you have found some Eilistraee drow.

Further not only would most drow be hostile to you on sight in the UD they would assume any drow who wasn't hostile to you to be a heretic so any friends you might be able to make might not stay around long.

In one of the RA salvatore books. I think the 2nd one. There is a human wizard who travels around the UD with his collapsible adamantine tower. He is an evil human wizard doing experiments on UD creatures. But any drow coming across him are still likely hostile. This might work for you if the UD was bigger.

You're wanting to just explore?

Just buy a bunch of Invis potions. I promise Drow cannot see through it.

But seriously, the Drow we have that I've seen have earned the right to do whatever they want to outsiders. Combined with the lore, it's just suicidal However, if your guy knows nothing about Drow, I suppose he'd have to find out in-character! That's half the fun, really.

And it gives the Drow another story to tell.

Oh, but the Drow CAN see through invisibility, little fly...they just PRETEND they cannot, until you are stuck in the web *cackles*

Exactly!

You might be surprised what you could accomplish via RP. Coming down into the underdark and walking into the camp and saying "hi wanna be friends" probably won't end well.

Have something the drow need and can't obtain through the various options posted by kira.

Of course, the drow might just change their mind one way because they're bored....fickle creatures after all

Vashard wrote:

You might be surprised what you could accomplish via RP. Coming down into the underdark and walking into the camp and saying "hi wanna be friends" probably won't end well.

Hah, no I didn't really plan on using that approach

Vashard wrote:

Have something the drow need and can't obtain through the various options posted by kira

This was more my idea. I'm going to try and get to a moderately high level before heading down there and was hoping to bank on my ability to move from the surface to the underdark without notice being useful to the drow. I don't necessarily have to be an assassin or spy, but I could act as a merchant, a fence, a messenger, a guide - someone who can obtain goods and services from the surface world easily, but still can hack it in the underdark. Hopefully I'll find a magic bullet solution - one simple thing I can provide the drow with (other than sacrificial blood lol) that will make them tolerate me, but I'm ready to do what it takes.

I don't expect to be FRIENDS with anyone down there, as far as I understand, drow aren't really the types to form a friendship.The closest thing I've found to friendship so far in drow lore is the relationship between Pharaun and Ryld in the War of the Spider Queen. I just want to find a way to be able to walk the camps, talk to drow that are willing to, and visit the merchants and priest for services. Anything more complex can be built from there.

Let's not mention the entrances to the UD are camped by Black Archers, Zhents, MD Elves, and anyone on the server looking for PVP, and you will forever be known as a traitor to everyone, regardless of why you went down there and your actions. So you have the drow, who then want to turn you into the star of their own *edited by DM AXE - not sure what that phrase ment, but I am sure you could use a better description *, and everyone else who will want to post your head on a pike as a drow-loving turncoat. Going to the UD and coming back out without a rescue party is a bad idea in general.

Yeah, it looks like it's going to be really tough to do, but I'm working with a DM and I'm willing to put in the time and effort. Hopefully when I'm ready to head down there I should be able to slip through the cracks without attracting too much attention, because this is happening one way or the other. I just hope it doesn't involve dying a lot.

Drows will be more interested in place you on altar.
Dont deal with any random drow you may catch in caves, choose carefully, someone powerfull and with brains, that will see profits in working with you.
Ask slaves first, then try to ask drow males, don't talk to females, they can sacrifice you.
Dont go in camp.
Dont do abrupt movements, you talking to evil poisoning spiders.
Bow an obey, drows think, you nothing more than dirt under their feets.
You will have little profits, while they will use you fully.
Learn how to summon balor, without balor, you just weakling to fed altar.
Cant summon balor? Hire mage who can.
Buy Low light vision potions. Underdark is so... dark.
Bow and obey some more.
Do you really want to go to underdark?
Lolth - most chaotic unpredicteble witch in all DnD settings, her priestess like their goddess.
Every minute be ready, that drows can chaotically sacrifice you.
Still want to go down here?
Better learn how to summon two balors.

Good luck =D

Dos blood feed the spider Queen! Malla Lolth grow fat on you blood.. the blood of enemies feed the most vile most beautyfull queen! Drink my queen drink deep grow strong on this blood sacrifice..

This is you fate in the UD

This is old Nanga...

New Nanga give you flowers and butterflys

Kerali wrote:

Drows will be more interested in place you on altar.
Dont deal with any random drow you may catch in caves, choose carefully, someone powerfull and with brains, that will see profits in working with you.
Ask slaves first, then try to ask drow males, don't talk to females, they can sacrifice you.
Dont go in camp.
Dont do abrupt movements, you talking to evil poisoning spiders.
Bow an obey, drows think, you nothing more than dirt under their feets.
You will have little profits, while they will use you fully.
Learn how to summon balor, without balor, you just weakling to fed altar.
Cant summon balor? Hire mage who can.
Buy Low light vision potions. Underdark is so... dark.
Bow and obey some more.
Do you really want to go to underdark?
Lolth - most chaotic unpredicteble witch in all DnD settings, her priestess like their goddess.
Every minute be ready, that drows can chaotically sacrifice you.
Still want to go down here?
Better learn how to summon two balors.

Good luck =D

Thanks for the advice! Heh, this is the kind of stuff I need to hear.

Oh, and by the way, I have darkvision, so that really shouldn't be a problem.



And I like the new Nanga better...

To be honest... I don't like how things are going with the Loth-worshiping drow right now. They generally do make deals with surfacers, it's in their lore. The Zhentarim, Thayans, various other organizations. They trade with other monstrous races as well. Sure they don't like the other races and feel they are inferior to any drow. But trade is trade and no society is fully self-sufficient. Especially not one that is a refugee camp that is barely hanging on and functioning....

Generally speaking, not every drow should be going "Let's kill!" "Sacrifice it!" or "enslave it!" towards every surfacer. They have their uses, and drow definitely have a racial +2 intelligence bonus - make use of it in RP, gamers.

@pyro.
If they do shift how they RP (a lot), then yes your guy could be hugely resourceful to them. He'd be capable of getting supplies they can't, in ways that won't rouse attention. He'd be able to do it cheaper (since 1/2 to 1/4 of the time they get attacked and/or killed) and make some decent money.

To be honest, I personally almost never appreciate seeing surfacers going into the Underdark, especially considering how easy it is in Dalelands for surfacers to the go the UD.

The overwhelming number of surfacer groups should have no incentive to go the Underdark. It is a much more dangerous place for a surfacer than for a Drow going up to the surface.

Surfacers willingly going down to the Underdark is a rarity. Drows raiding the surface is not a rarity.

When every surfacer has the opportunity to go down into the Underdark with absolutely no consequences, then that opens a door for loads of surfacers to do so.

Also, Low-Light vision is not the same as Darkvision. Low-light vision means, that if you are near a source of low light, you can see further the distance than what a human would. If you have no source of light, you are as blind as a human would be, when found in utter darkness.

One thing is to deal with huge, powerful organizations like the Zenths and the Red Wizards...one utterly different thing is a lone individual (I assume not Halaster or the Spider Mage, powerwise...) backed by his own self only, trying to survive in these conditions...My admiration for the attempt, though...have a nice death

deserk wrote:

To be honest, I personally almost never appreciate seeing surfacers going into the Underdark, especially considering how easy it is in Dalelands for surfacers to the go the UD.

The overwhelming number of surfacer groups should have no incentive to go the Underdark. It is a much more dangerous place for a surfacer than for a Drow going up to the surface.

Surfacers willingly going down to the Underdark is a rarity. Drows raiding the surface is not a rarity.

When every surfacer has the opportunity to go down into the Underdark with absolutely no consequences, then that opens a door for loads of surfacers to do so.

This I totally appreciate. I just want to say I'm not looking to get Dannjl into the underdark to steal anyone's thunder, be a pest, affect sweeping social change, spy on the drow or anything else like that. He his fascinated by the underdark and has a very serious in character reason to go. He (and I) understands the implications of a surfacer making their way in the underdark. I understand that it's atypical and dangerous.

That's why I'm here posting on message boards and trying to figure out what's possible and what's not in terms of RP etc. I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

In terms of personal power, no, Dannjl's not exactly Halaster, and never will be, but he will have friends and allies, both on the surface and in the underdark. He's already working on that through extensive RP on the surface, so hopefully he'll be able to have a little more weight behind him than just his own.

As for Sergant Jesus' comment, I have to agree, but I've never actually been down there and don't play in the underdark so I cannot comment. Every book I've read about the dark elves talks about how their cities are centres of trade and learning, and are often described as quite cosmopolitan at times. The refugee camp is an interesting paradox - on one hand the drow would be desperate for any real reliable help they could get, but on the other they'd be paranoid an insular due to community size.

The underdark is a terribly oppressive place. Why would you want to be seen there..........

*smiles beneath his hood*

Sergeant Jesus wrote:

To be honest... I don't like how things are going with the Loth-worshiping drow right now. They generally do make deals with surfacers, it's in their lore. The Zhentarim, Thayans, various other organizations. They trade with other monstrous races as well. Sure they don't like the other races and feel they are inferior to any drow. But trade is trade and no society is fully self-sufficient. Especially not one that is a refugee camp that is barely hanging on and functioning....

Generally speaking, not every drow should be going "Let's kill!" "Sacrifice it!" or "enslave it!" towards every surfacer. They have their uses, and drow definitely have a racial +2 intelligence bonus - make use of it in RP, gamers.

@pyro.
If they do shift how they RP (a lot), then yes your guy could be hugely resourceful to them. He'd be capable of getting supplies they can't, in ways that won't rouse attention. He'd be able to do it cheaper (since 1/2 to 1/4 of the time they get attacked and/or killed) and make some decent money.

Quoted for truth.

Again, it's about having leverage...Something the drow need they can't get otherwise. But rest assured, they will be looking for ways to remove any advantage you might have...

Indeed, I expect a nasty game of cat and mouse I suppose.

Are there any established Houses in the Dalelands underdark? With matron mothers and lackeys and all that kind of stuff? What is the general political situation down there?

All nice points to everyone.

Yes the UD has 2 Houses with Matrons... then there is the Yath.. Trade with the surfacers can and has happened but you see the change in treatment changes constantly.. here is why... as stated you have 2 houses... both enjoy pissing each off to the point they may very well like to disrupt something the other has done just to bring them down a peg or two... since Kivvil are throw away resources and have no rights in our society it is easy to disrupt those plays.

Now even if you set up a deal most likely it is with one house and they will not tell the other house *points to the above point* so Mr. Kivvl comes down and runs into a fraction of UD'ers they have no contract with .. under question they realize now you have a contract with the other house.. well depending on whom you run into they will either give you an RP out and you run back to the surface with your tail between your legs or you/they kill each other and now you are hunted for killing Citizens... no win situation for Mr. Kivvil

Now ontop of the Houses you have the Yath.. ugly mean bitches that well in all honesty may kill you, deal with you or both. It is a political mine field in the UD since their are multiple fractions in the UD and most of the time are looking at ways to out do each other... Kivvil killing is one of the few things that seem to the only thing they agree on most days.

Shadow