How Can I Make The Underdark Better?

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I know this will sound absolutely insane but perhaps make it a tad brighter. I know I know, it's the Underdark but I'm not a Drow in real life and I've found it extremely tough to remain in such a dark area at all times. This could be done by adding more light-like effects to vegetation and terrain features.

In social areas I think that is a good idea as the drow do lightly illuminate their camps and living places with fairy fire and special mushrooms. Nice idea. Anyone else?

Make sure Seminole that your BloomEffects is UNchecked in your graphics.

Hm... We face higher ECL XP charges (5000xp to get to level 2 as an example)

Our leveling areas also tend to be large, with low mob spawns (Some of the Higher tier areas aside, such as Azers, Duergar, Mindflayers.) Perhaps an increase in mob sizes or spawn points? Or to adjust the mobs to spawn when more party members are present? Saves less time walking, more time battling (Which can also help spell durations, potions, etc.)

Keep it logical of course, but enough that it can benefit and encourage leveling more-so.


Thoughts?

Thats a good point, Ill see if certain areas can be improved like the depleated mines ect, mostly though I take that into account when I hand out rp or quest reward exp. Anyone else got ideas? So far two good ideas, keep them coming!

-I agree with Demo on that our hunting areas are large, without a rest point near the higher lvl of them, also the spawns are too far between them and spawn in very slow rate and number, have happen to me many times to be out of spells entirely.
-Also what i would suggest are some static quests as on surface, it really helps the lvling till 20 and get things a bit faster after it..
-Give us something to do i mean our main plot in underdark is the recapture of the Maerimydra, i know that cause of the last events with the hacker and all that, loosing one of our UD builders, maybe is hard to import a city like Maerimydra, but at least we can enjoy the "ride" while taking it even if we never see it into the module or a lot later than it was expected.(hope this doesnt go to rp ideas if it does scratch it)
-Oh and a last one maybe we could move the Quellars closer to the camps? Unless those that run the Qullear's themselves asked to be so far...since his initation Killian have never visit the Dabelkith building at all.

Make a Wizard or Lizard Packrider NPC that either "Portal Jumps" or "Gives a ride to" an area in, or outside the Qu'ellars. Might be the best idea Stauros. I know the Zau'Afin and DK sometimes enjoy the Qu'ellars being further away.

Rest points i think are a very good point, ill have a few added in, there will be lots of quests in the Ud in the future, just getting the hang of programing them, till then ill be doing mini quests again to fill this gap. At the moment Ihave recruited four UD builders who are amazing, and might be getting two more. Nice ideas, anyone else?

Most important: Quests, like they exist on the surface. This also mean quests for the Surface drow, as they are pretty much banned from all current surface quests, but oocly, need them just as much as surfacers do.

These are some types of quests i am hoping to introduce to the underdark, and also for surface drow to.

Bounty Quests

Investigation Quests

faction only quests

Skill dependant quests

My five cent was in quest topic earlier:

Grave_Zero wrote:

Just asking, but could be one the solution, if someone - who knows the map editing - would just "copy the surface quest scipts and change only dialog text" to make "new" quest to the UD? It could be called the "gemini quest projekt"
Why? Because the UD quests would be the surface quests counterparts -> the fund (scriping) would be the same, only the body (dialog, places) would be different.
If you would do to surface version of these "gemini quest', you wouldn't be able to do the other UD versions (and vice versa), because the system would keep track your action, with an "it has been already completed" journal message, because the surface and the UD mission would share the same basic script.
Illustrated by an example:

Spoiler:

With the use of this model there would be an equal number of quests both on the surface and in the UD. In addition, this would also solve the problem of unreasonable UD/Surface "meta"visits...
This might be feasible?

Not new ideas, but IMHO good ones:
Guild based starting points would be nice. If you have the guild key, an alternative dialoge in the OOC area would grant you to spawn in your guildhall.
addition to this: A porting possibility between the camp and the guild halls.
An NPC in the camp, or an unused portal in Sschindilryn would offer a dialoge to the guildmembers with this option. (only those whos have guildkeys ofc) -> This would solve the "the Qu'ellars are too far to reach" problems, furthermore would give a reason to the city of Portals to go there...

Ill ask the builders and see what they think

I don't play in the UD, so forgive me if I'm wrong on this.
But on another thread somewhere, someone mentioned that none of the UD areas can be rested in (outside of designated resting spots), even if you meet the survival requirements.
This seems kind of unfair: the survivalists of the surface can rest in all sorts of zones if they have enough ranks, but all the WILDERNESS areas of the UD can't be?
It might be a scripting problem, like if the tunnels can't possibly be marked appropriately for survival without messing them up (like if changing this makes the areas count as an 'outdoor' zone which might trigger the daylight penalties).

If it's possible without screwing everything up, I think that'd be nice for them to have.

Move the beholders so people can level up at the orcs and other places, the Dead pits are pretty uninteresting after a while. If Kiaransalee has taken such an interest in the area and Lolth pays enough attention to the camp to put in mini silences maybe she could take enough interest to make the dead in the dead pits turnable by players who can actually get exp there.

Make sure one of the vendors in camp has all of the healing potions and the vigors.

1.Dead Pits are impossible to do solo with some builds, and unavoidable in the leveling progression. A rogue stands no chance against sneak attack immune mobs that make you take Will Saves every time they hit you. The only alternative I can think of around that level is Beholders, but they are also stacked for killing stealth characters.

2. Too many long winding tunnels. The UD could use some more open areas for the environment's sake. Some times I feel as if I am trapped in one perpetually long hallfway, more big caverns would do wonders for the feel of the UD, and give some more places to run larger events.

UnsafeNormal wrote:

1.Dead Pits are impossible to do solo with some builds, and unavoidable in the leveling progression. A rogue stands no chance against sneak attack immune mobs that make you take Will Saves every time they hit you. The only alternative I can think of around that level is Beholders, but they are also stacked for killing stealth characters.

Wands of protection from evil sell for about 2-3 k on the auction which is not a lot, and buy a scroll of bless weapon for 2d6 vs undead of magic damage. All you need is some UMD. Rogues can tear through those undead if you use all at your disposal. By level seven, you are normally carrying a fair bit of cash to afford this.

Snow Crystal wrote:

UnsafeNormal wrote:

1.Dead Pits are impossible to do solo with some builds, and unavoidable in the leveling progression. A rogue stands no chance against sneak attack immune mobs that make you take Will Saves every time they hit you. The only alternative I can think of around that level is Beholders, but they are also stacked for killing stealth characters.

Wands of protection from evil sell for about 2-3 k on the auction which is not a lot, and buy a scroll of bless weapon for 2d6 vs undead of magic damage. All you need is some UMD. Rogues can tear through those undead if you use all at your disposal. By level seven, you are normally carrying a fair bit of cash to afford this.

Bless Weapon is a Paladin only spell and they get the ability to cast that spell at level 6 because of spell progression. I guess they could take craft wand by then. The Spell costs 4500 to make, maybe you know a Paladin who will sell a wand at no cost mark up. Add another 2k for a Prot alignment wand and you're looking at 6500 gold to just fight the undead, or as a person who plays on the surface also I can go kill kobolds very easily, who will take backstabs and crits. Or maybe by around level 8 you have found a nice group to kill ants with and we all know the more people in the group the more ants that spawn thus more loot and exp.

The major problem is that the Underdark has too many obstacles and too few players, you have to solo or maybe 3 man it because everyone else who plays in the UD is really far ahead of you and hunting somewhere else or they are roleplaying somewhere because they are epic leveled. We can talk about how amazing the RP is or isn't but until you have some levels to back up your roleplay you are at the mercy of all, and since you're playing a Drow or close to drow you're dead.

But yeah other than that you can get those two wands that you need a dc 15 umd to use.

I don't disagree things are difficult down there. Just pointing out some little things that help. My character has been based on the surface more.

Any time you have a leveling area that people MUST use, but that penalizes certain classes, you have a gross, and ultimately un-fun imbalance.

How fun would it be to HAVE to level in an area where the monsters are immune to 75% damage that fighters do, and you are a fighter? Or how about 75% damage reduction to damage mages can do and you are a mage?

This is essentially how undead affect rogue characters. They have a massive resistance to their major ability to do damage.

Again, not fun.

As was stated above, on the surface, a level equivalent character can kill kobolds with MUCH less hassle and with no requirement of magic items and skill choice being a must to hunt there (unlike the undead area, apparently).

My suggestion then is this: there are many wide open spaces in the UD, pick one Area that wont require PC's to have to go through super powered enemies to get to this Area, and make some monsters for that picked Area that are approximately as the tough as the kobolds are.

This will solve the problem.

by comparison to the surface i think some of the 'fighting' areas are a little plain

the surface goblin caves and kobold caves have quite good variety and eye candy for example.

ive spent a lot of time in the dead pits and they can get a bit boring - some sort of redesign of that area might be good


one advantage the UD has is that the camp makes for one good central area - the surface has lost this a bit with the evils taking over Shadowdale IMO (altho they have gained with an increase in evil RP)

however even tho it does have a central area i have often found it hard to find other players to adventure with

putting some quests connected to fighting areas should help this i reckon - tough-ish quests with a boss or similar can really help to get players to form parties to get that extra chunk of experience

having fighting areas with lots of similarly powerful mobs at each room just encourages solo levelling

for me roleplay while i adventure is of primary importance - i hate solo levelling up and grinding!

Max Hatchet wrote:

putting some quests connected to fighting areas should help this i reckon - tough-ish quests with a boss or similar can really help to get players to form parties to get that extra chunk of experience

Can say something of this sort is in the works currently

I have a few thoughts on this subject.

1. I recommend a new clan of goblins move into the surrounding tunnels. Develop 8-10 different goblins with increasing degree of CR difficulty. Starting about lvl 8 and moving up to lvl 15. Create an additional 8-10 maps specifically for this goblin tribe. Make several camp based caverns that are wide open and not twisting tunnels. Give the goblins a theme or story line so that this will promote some rp as well.

2. Less winding maze like tunnels. More open caverns with some kind of theme supporting it and the residents of that particular cavern.

3. More fire and lava maps with a new clan of firelizards. Again develop a small theme for these lizards and give them their own mini society. Example, shamans, fighters, assassins..workers..etc. Make this area 18+ this will give a place gain xp in the late teens.

4. The Duergar miners need to be weakened a bit. They crit hit for double 70's. This has been complained about for an entire year. Change the duergar spawns a bit and add a few new caverns supporting a small duergar society. Again, a theme of some kind with an open cavern as their home base with more stone structures added to the landscape.

5. Additional mindflayer caverns. Expand it a bit and make their brain more difficult to get to. 18+

6. More lakes and rivers added to the setting that is pleasing to the eye and realistic for underground lakes.

7. Deep smurf civilization...lets bring it alive.

8. Duergar civilization...lets bring it alive also

9. Find a purpose for Sschindylyrn. Right now it just sits there beautiful exotic and...Empty. Add storage and auctioneer NPCs. Let’s do something with that large pyramid temple. Add an interior and make it a sanctuary for the Yath, a place of our worst nightmares.

10. Less winding tunnels Open up some maps with beautiful scenery. The UD is both beautiful and deadly. Right now it is just painful to the players. Ever try to walk and rp in a maze?

11. Fix walk mesh in the duergar bar area. That winding stair case is terrible and you get stuck!

12. Fix walkmesh line of sight just outside the duergar bar before the lava. Again the pathing there is bad and players get stuck. Smooth it out.

13. The Minotaur maze is well…just winding tunnels. Bring the Minotaur race alive, give them a home base and a RP purpose. Perhaps they are trying to enslave the goblins and kobolds? Or use them as guardians for the mind flayers? Also the minos drop horns but these horns have no purpose.

14. Establish a story and a theme for all the residents of the UD and some Lore behind them. Some back ground for the new goblin clans for example. Who is their leader and what plots are the goblins doing? Why are the duergar there? Do they have a leader? The hostile duergar could be tied into the new duergar starting area. Maybe they are exiles?

15. The orc tunnels could be revamped with a home base of their own. Again, an open cavern not just more winding tunnels. Include different types of orc spawns and a big chief with bodyguards.

16. A random spawn generator throughout the UD. Like what the arena has on the surface. You just never know what is lurking behind that twist in the tunnel. Please no balors or dragons

17. The trap in the azer halls is annoying. The process to escape the trap is painful to the player. Remove that annoying timer before you can attempt to click again on the escape rope.

18 Fix the many walkmesh issues in Azer halls, especially around the ore deposits.

19. The random treasure chest at the end of a long twisting tunnel seems odd. Move the treasure chests in line with the theme recommendations I listed above. And guard them with a spawn trigger.

20. More ore deposits. The UD is deep in the earth, why not have more ore deposits for miners?

21. Add things to the landscape that promote RP. Make rest areas appealing to the player as well.

22. More snakes, scorpions and other deadly critters! Maybe add these to the random spawn generator I listed above.

23. Remove the cockroach spawn and replace it with something weaker. It only annoys the low level players. Why do we have content that simply annoys the players? How many players need to complain about this one simple thing before it will be removed?

24. Why is there a high priestess pet in the dead pits? That pretty orb spider could be better placed someplace else and again, promote RP. Right now it just sits there beautiful and…alone. Move it to the huge pyramid temple in Sschyndy or perhaps the refugee camp? Again, the intent is to promote rp right?

25. Increase spawns and or the spawn rate in the mushroom forest. Anyone trying to gather mycanoid parts for an acid enchant would need a long, frustrating 3 days of farming. This is like the old spawns in the jungle on the surface. The one which dropped essences of air parts.

26. The portal in the Mushroom forest is beyond frustrating. It randomly teleports you to one of 2 locations and I have counted 37 clicks until I got the one location I actually wanted. This happens often and actually seriously takes away the fun factor of the game. For the love of Lolth please fix this.

27. Epic content. Lots of it! We need something to challenge character lvls 20-30. Most players will spend 6+ months standing around a campfire. Those epic level players also need a challenge, something besides PvP.

Kind Regards

Vilesinger

a lot of that sounds good but can we make sure there is plenty of stuff for levels 1-8 to keep new players going? not too much of a bias towards very high lvls plz!

lovely ideas Vile.