About the Royal Oak

I would like to ask how possible is to have the place torn down - or the current "owners" removed ICly?

I have considered this for quite a few days, and I believe I am not alone. I love the location and the RP it brings but I just can't find -any- way to bypass the RP that's been going on with the place in the last few days. Especially now that Freehaven has been completely revamped.

I also have no idea where else to post this question.

On a side note, how strong is the bouncer? Tae has saved the bouncer's life on many occasions - when he walked into the inn as a part of a patrol and there were NPC drow inside - the bouncer almost wet himself and begged to be saved. (that was a part of the RP and I am not sure if I can consider that to be a measure of his abilities)
So I would assume he's just a rather sturdy dwarf and that's about it?
Or is he like the druids in Myth Drannor?

I heard there are some Drow-Human blind dates going on in there.

Why do you need to bypass the RP...? O.o

I thnk he means to tackle it. Not bypass it.

Just so the whole story here is told.

Taeron is going ballistic on jennifer, and found her in the Royal Oak Inn. Jennifer is accepted there, as far as I know, ever since her ascension by Eilistraee. tae got a bit mad Jennie was hiding behind the Bouncer.

Or something like that.


But seriously.. tearing the place down? Because some Drow, and some humans get along fine? I'm sorry.. we still have Eilistraeans around, and they have surfacer friends. Please accept that.

I am really sorry that you consider this to be a personal thing. It is not. This is going on ever since the ownership of the Inn switched from Sascha to the Manes.

I have -nothing- against any character or player on the server. Tae does, however. But it's all sincerely IC and I am sorry if I ever made anyone feel like I don't like him as a player.

Once again, Tae (not only Tae) has several good reasons to want something (anything) done with the Royal Oak.

I will try to put this as delicately as I can...

In FR lore, drow never were and never should be treated with "innocent untill proven otherwise".
Not even Drizzt was ever regarded that way in any of his novels or any lore books (as far as I know. Though I may be wrong)

EDIT: I would like to remind everyone that Tae is doing whatever he can to free shadowdale from the Zhents. Most older Zhents know this and this is once again nothing personal. The only reason Tae doesn't want to level Shadowdale with the ground is that it's being occupied by the Zhents. It doesn't consist solely of them.
For this same reason I asked if there can be something done with the Oak -or- the ownership. There is no OOC hostility involved. Please don't look for something that's not there.

EDIT2: The tearing down of the place is only the most drastic and radical means of solving a problem. Please take into consideration that we are talking about a barbarian here. Uthgardt barbarian.

as a note, there have been many drow in the Inn and a great deal of open lovemaking going on.

I have been away for the last few days so I have totally missed out on what may be going on at the Oak that I have missed. I can say that I think finding a way to tear down the Oak would be a huge loss. A lot of fun, crazy, and just wacky stuff goes on there and I believe it's a huge asset to the server as a whole.

I suppose I might be a little biased since Annea almost never leaves the Oak and it has been the center of my experience on Dalelands almost since I started. With all of the effort and energy I have put into help. Making the Oak a fun and interesting place to visit, it is a little hard to hear people OOCly saying they want it gone.

As far as Dragen my understanding so far from the DMs is that he is very powerful and generally should be accepted as capable of enforcing the rules of the Oak and the decisions of the staff in most any situation. As far as the drop goes, those policies are not in. My control but I can say that eiliestraeen drow have been allowed in the Oak since well before I came to the Dalelands. That part of things is nothing new. I know some people have issue with a lot of the tolerance to drow, and in some cases I actually do too, but I'm just the barmaid so those rules are not my decision to make.

Quote :

... it is a little hard to hear people OOCly saying they want it gone.

I never said that OOCly. I asked that in an ooc fashion since I don't see how else this could be discussed. Tae coulnd't just yell it at the sky, could he?

And -please- the entire wrecking thing is just one of the two questions I asked and everyone keeps ignoring that. I also asked about ownership change. Why doesn't anyone reflect upon that?
Taeron is a barbarian, he reacts as a barbarian would - with the difference that Tae has a strong mind.

Perhaps the common rable with pitchforks and torches should not be underestimated

- WE GOT A *put in something fitting*...MAY WE BURN 'ER???

- *opens visor* How do you knoooow she a *put in something fitting* ???

- SHE LOOKS LIKE ONE....BURN HER....BURN HER....

Just saying we tend to forget the people who are suposed to live in the dales..not just travle there for adventure...at some point the talk around the area will grow into a resentment...witch at some other point results in...BURN HER...

Just a few thoughts

Can we please keep this IC and not let ooc feelings get involved.

This problem arose ICly and it should be dealt with ICly


the situation is that (im sorry ticla) but the only dm approved eilistraeen drow that I know of atm is Elvirila or some similar name. There have been many many drow and half drow in the Inn.

If it is rply burned down, it can be rp'ly rebuilt too - as long as some sense is used and it's not an overnight repair.

But please lets not let this get out of proportion.

The inn actually can't "burn". It's made of stone and ironwood. So... no torches.

Note: there have been many drow and half drow in the inn, including the eilistraeen, sinual the ex-drow, Jennifer, perhaps tiss' ?, nanga, vuzz, and songbird.

Personally I think things are getting out of hand. So much hate going on between people and feelings are getting hurt. I think everyone needs to chill instead of suggesting things like bringing down the Oak (which would effect a lot of other people). Remember to try to respect people, you don't need to bring down the Oak or change owners because you don't like the RP.

Yes lore wise drow are not accepted, but then again those games are usually played around a tabletop with some friends. This is a computer game with people from all over the world. Some of these people will be your friends and some won't. Just try to bear in mind that these people do not know you personally and their only interaction with you is through your character. Sometimes you can hurt someones feelings if you hound them too much, they end up not wanting to play because they feel rejected. You should at least try to respect their RP. You may not accept good drow but at least respect that this is what the player wishes to RP.

Mate, so I can't RP my char because I get in the way of other people? I don't understand.

I am suggesting a RP action based on IC happenings. I asked it so that I know how the DM's feel about it - because it's not something that can possibly be done without their supervision.

My main suggestions were bringing down the Oak -or- changing ownership. Both based on RP and IC happenings. Where did I go wrong?

EDIT: I respect good drow. You can ask Kel'ala or the current drow. Tae has no problems with that.
I am always trying to back down if I feel like my char is being too much of a bloodhound towards others. I always give RP out and I don't even attack when the opposing force uses insults while RP-ing out.
I don't see what I'm doing wrong, please try to elaborate.

this is just my personal opinion, but the flavour of any world, any setting, any server is created by soem things being accepted, and some things not.

If you wish to remain reasonably faerunian, then drow, orcs, yuan-ti are not generally accepted. If you do not wish to remain reasonably faerunian, then anything can go and there are indeed servers like that..

This is a medium rp server - not hard core and not light. I do not think there is anything wrong (myself) with players trying to achieve change in character.

One of the biggest complaints on the server is that things are static. A certain amount of dm supervision is needed for some things, and to put limits when things get out of control, but it is also up to the players to make other things happen.

Taeron wrote:

I would like to ask how possible is to have the place torn down - or the current "owners" removed ICly?

I have considered this for quite a few days, and I believe I am not alone. I love the location and the RP it brings but I just can't find -any- way to bypass the RP that's been going on with the place in the last few days. Especially now that Freehaven has been completely revamped.

I also have no idea where else to post this question.

On a side note, how strong is the bouncer? Tae has saved the bouncer's life on many occasions - when he walked into the inn as a part of a patrol and there were NPC drow inside - the bouncer almost wet himself and begged to be saved. (that was a part of the RP and I am not sure if I can consider that to be a measure of his abilities)
So I would assume he's just a rather sturdy dwarf and that's about it?
Or is he like the druids in Myth Drannor?

The answer to your first question depends on primarily RP from players. What happens is mostly in player's hands about this.

As for the bouncer, it's just a sturdy dwarf and that's about it. There is also a very powerful NPC wizard that lives there that's done some protective magic wards against the place in the past, and the current owner of the inn has also paid for more bouncers when the ownership was transferred, although I keep forgetting to put that in game. If you're interested in doing RP about it, then I'd also recommend PMing your ideas to the staff.

You want to bring down the Oak or change ownership based on your feelings. Take a moment to consider how that effects other people and their RP. You are going to remove the Oak, which will take a lot of RP from many people, or change ownership which effects the RP of those who now hold the ownership of the Inn currently.

You essentially want to run people off to one area of the server, Freehaven. If I was restricted to that place alone I wouldn't want to play on this server anymore. Ask yourself this, would you want to be resticted to Freehaven alone?

There are only a few areas to go for them to RP with currently, Freehaven doesn't usually recieve a lot of traffic. So you want them to go there and sit alone and wait for someone to come by? The Oak is one place they are allowed to go that usually has someone there to RP with. Now you want to take that from them too?

RP isn't really that fun if you are alone.

Jeffman, a lot of people are run off out of the Royal oak becusae drow and yuan-ti have been / are tolerated there.

its not one sided, you know.


by the way on a personal note, this will affect my char very badly and make them less playable and remove some rp that is really rewarding on an ooc level, but I do not think we should stop people trying to influence things and outcomes especially when those actions fit right within lore.

I understand that too, but some things we have to tolerate for the sake of player enjoyment.

Edit: Those players are also free to visit the other areas where these "outcasts" are not. i.e. Shadowdale, Myth Drannor, Freehaven. Freehaven is probably one of the least trafficed areas. I'm just trying to get to a point of understanding on both sides here so we can reach a resolution to this issue.

jeffman_4 wrote:

I understand that too, but some things we have to tolerate for the sake of player enjoyment.

I don't think that turning evil races to suddenly accepted ones are something that needs to be tolerated. There are different sort of races for a reason and it whacks out a whole lot of lore and RP to think modernly and tolerate every char that's played by a pc. If one wants to play a special case then it's totally up to the player but they should know what also comes with it.

Now one of my toons don't go to the Oak at all because of its reputation but to me as a player it's not a big deal. However it does have an impact and hopefully there are consequences icly to what goes on at the Oak.

/dm hat off: also, if you start playing a difficult race that is known to be unacceptable to most, and even hated, then (not trying to be mean) that is the player's choice.

If you play a difficult race, then I really don't think you can complain if you arent accepted.

In fact, it's actually pretty rough if everyone else is expected to bend their rp to accept hated-race characters, when people are expecting to play on a roughly lore-appropriate server.

So basically it's being said that is not acceptable RP?

Then you need to disallow those races from having the option to be good at all, or make it a server rule. I didn't say IC you have to tolerate it, but going so far as to take out the Oak over it I think is going a bit far. The Oak provides quite a bit of RP for the server.

Jeffman. No.
I am trying to cause an IC change based on my character's feelings.
That's a huge difference and I believe that's something you were defending from the start. Tae took it all into consideration - and he thinks it would be safer for the people in the Dales. That's all.
I don't want to run off anyone.
Jeffman you seem to be forgetting that playing a drow or yuan-ti is a player's choice. Anyone can make a dwarf or a gnome and have -no- problems.
The fact that someone makes a drow should -not- affect the behavior of other players (IMHO).
Playing a drow comes at a price. Hence the huge ECL advantage. If you don't want to be shooed off the surface, then why do you make a drow in the first place?
Isn't there a disclaimer somewhere that says that playing certain races comes with IC consequences?

EDIT: Tae has no problems with anyone who proves his worth. But he never considers malarites, zhents or aurilites "innocent untill proven otherwise".

This thread makes me a little grumpy.

But let us talk at this from IC view.

The oak inn through much IC rp and considerable financial cost and RP tokens 5 epics I think from the first owners. The Oak belonged to the first owners and is exempt from any IC takeover unless authorized by the owner or the staff. This would be like another faction wanting to IC take over the druid grove, or the new Iron house halls. So to answer the OP question, in my opinion I do not think this is possible to ICly take this property over unless the current owners were willing to IC and OOC allow this action.

The oak transferred ownership through IC means. That same exemption now applies to the current owners in my opinion.

Again from a RP IC view. The barbarian Tae is not entitled to enter the Oak inn. It is a privilege granted by the owners. If the barbarian does not like the people inside this inn then perhaps he can go find another inn? What right does a random barbarian have to decide what rules apply to another citizen’s property? It seems to me that Tae the Barbarian does not like the owner’s rules so he wants to take it away from the owner. Would a lawful barbarian try to take over another citizen’s property?

Well, I guess IC Tae could slaughter the owners and steal the property. But this would have significant backlash. The Barbarian Tae could burn the place down, hire a small force to destroy it, but what right does this barbarian have to this action? The Barbarian Tae could consult local authorities and try to have the citizen's property confiscated, but on what grounds do he do this? What laws of the local authorites as the Oak Inn owners broken?

The oak inn is a private establishment but the owners have opened it to the public. The owners decide the rules in their own property. This is done through significant IC actions and only subject to the staff’s oversight, not Tae the Barbarian. If Tae the Barbarian does not like the owners rules, if Tae the barbarian does not want to drink mead and eat mutton with elves, or tieflings, or hins or gnomes, then Tae the Barbarian can go find a campfire and eat a pig.


Kind Regards

Vilesinger