Male cleric of Lloth in faerun

I know it is a rule of the server that only females can be clerics of Lloth and I don't intend to go against that. I just wanted to point out that it is possible in Faerun lore.

I am currently re-reading the Sellswords trilogy by R A Salvatore. In the Servant of The Shard one of Jarlaxle's lieutenants by the name Ray Guy is a wizard/cleric of Lloth, and is rumored to be almost equal in power to Gromph Baenrae, the most powerful wizard in Mennzoberranzan.

Again, not trying to change the rules. I just wanted to point out to all that say it has never happened, that in fact, it has.

The main thing to remember is that Lloth deity of chaos. So why would she conform to only one type of being to be her clerics... Sounds pretty lawful to me. Why wouldn't she grant her power to a male just to stir some true chaos in?

The Canon ruling is infact that male clerics of Lolth are never granted spells above 4th circle (at least I'm fairly sure it's 4th) - not that there aren't any. As a result they tend to multiclass, somewhat unsurprisingly, if they reach that point in power - bearing in mind a lot of this is TSR-era material where 4th level spells mean a little more than 'joe the chump npc cleric'.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Rai-guy


It is unclassified how powerful Rai really was, but it states he was a high cleric, for all we know he could've had 1 level in the class and the rest was wizard. But eh. *Shrugs*

I concede all of these facts. My point was that I can remember someone saying that it is impossible for a male to be a cleric of Lloth and there being a big debate about it. I'm not saying that he would be a high lvl cleric, only that it is possible and in fact does happen.

If male clerics are only weak, and only allowed low level spells... Why then when rai-guy prayed to Lloth for aid in acquiring the Shard for his own personal gain did she send him a yochlol (one of her handmaidens) to aid him. That seems a little higher than a 4th lvl spell to me... Extra plainer gate.

Because R.A. Salvatore screwed up?

I like these exceptions to the rules, because it usually makes a very unique and interesting character. If it wasn't for characters like Drizzt, Jarlaxle, Rai-Guy, Kimmurial, Pickel, Wulfgar, etc.... it would be a very boring world where every one fits into their designated cookie cutter molds.

The characters portrayed in War of the Spider Queen had much more depth.

I think I read that they could cast 5th level spells at max. I will look for my source again and post it.

Absolutely! The war of the spider queen series was a great series. However, I like R A Salvatore's writing style better. It seems like Richard Lee Byers to me tries too hard to make himself sound intelligent by using as much complicated wording as possible. I hate having to stop reading every few minutes to consult my thesaurus. I did enjoy the stories thoroughly, just thought he was trying a little too hard, and in the process discouraged all the readers that didn't want to take the time to cross reference... Much like J R R Tolken with his need to overload you with way too much useless information. I had a hard time staying awake while reading TLOTR series.

devious78 wrote:

Absolutely! The war of the spider queen series was a great series. However, I like R A Salvatore's writing style better. It seems like Richard Lee Byers to me tries too hard to make himself sound intelligent by using as much complicated wording as possible. I hate having to stop reading every few minutes to consult my thesaurus. I did enjoy the stories thoroughly, just thought he was trying a little too hard, and in the process discouraged all the readers that didn't want to take the time to cross reference... Much like J R R Tolken with his need to overload you with way too much useless information. I had a hard time staying awake while reading TLOTR series.

Maybe his writing style is more intelligent

Possibly so. But as I said, by using so many "10 dollar words", you most likely alienate all the readers that don't have the patience or the desire to trudge their way through it. Which is quite possibly why Salvatore is a best selling author and Byers is not.

devious78 wrote:

If male clerics are only weak, and only allowed low level spells... Why then when rai-guy prayed to Lloth for aid in acquiring the Shard for his own personal gain did she send him a yochlol (one of her handmaidens) to aid him. That seems a little higher than a 4th lvl spell to me... Extra plainer gate.

Could it be that Lolth wanted the Shard to fall into the hands of either her demons or the Church of Lolth?

could be Evil. I haven't gotten that far yet in the book. The yochlol apeared, told him he would have his answer soon, and left... So I guess I'll find out.

It is also widely rumored that the reason why The Drow of Menzoberranzan stopped hunting Drizzt was that Lloth favors him due to all the chaos he has caused there. That is not confirmed, but would make alot of sense... Yet another example of Lloth favoring a male, even after causing the deaths of two of her more powerful Priestesses.

All I was getting at, is I've seen people argue saying that a male can't be a Cleric of Lloth. That is not true. It may be rare, and he may not be allowed to have higher lvl spells... But it is absolutely possible.

All on this post have made some very good points, and have kept it very civil. I really appreciate all of your input and the fact that everyone kept cool heads about the subject is awesome... It makes for a very fun debate.

And nlyh,
I hope I didn't make you mad about the author thing, I did love the War of the Spider Queen series... I even bought the Ryld Argith miniature because I loved his character. Liking Salvatore's writing better is merely my opinion, that I wouldn't dream of forcing on anyone else. Didn't want to really get into that subject. It would be like me telling a cowboy that Metal is better than Country... There would be no end to the arguement. We all know what opinions are like... So no hard feelings I hope.

Actually, I believe that what was stated in the books was that Lolth just didn't CARE enough about Drizzt to warrant them continually hunting him down.

I thought the books said she looked forward to having his soul to torture, and thought him to be quite the prize if she could get ahold of him. But some of the clerics and I believe Jarl'axle said that they thought Lloth favored him, not that it was fact. Lloth did provide Matron Malice with the undead version of Zaknafein to hunt him and when it failed Malice lost favor and house Do'urden was destroyed... Then some years later, when the Drow attacked Mithral Hall, Lloth povided a Yochlol in the battle with Drizzt in the tunnels that ended up killing Wulfgar. As well, Lloth was the one that provided Wulfgar's soul to Eertu so he could torture him and tempt Drizzt to re-summon the Demon to get his friend back.

I personally don't think she favored him, but she sure offered alot of assistance in trying to kill him to say she didn't care either way.

Lloth only cares about things to a point where it profits her. She'll offer help to an extent, but like any investor, she cuts her losses when it suits her. That and she finds the whole chain of events amusing, and likely a good distraction for other deities to watch to cover up her deeper, more dangerous, plots.

Good point all, but we kinda got off track from my OP. I would ask that this thread be locked, and we can discuss whether Drizzt is a champion of Lloth or not, and who the best author is on posts that more pertain to those subjects. I know I brought up Drizzt, so in a sence I derailed my own topic...lol. The point was that a male in FR lore can be a cleric of lloth, and it seems all of us agree on that, just not how powerful a cleric they can be.

Yet it cannot be explained to PnP terms, I just want to clarify this.

You are attempting to define something that he did. Lolth sent him a Yochol, that's fine. But it doesn't mean he had 20 cleric levels, as I said, it was unclassified


Just please remember, it is from an authors perspective, and as he was a Main Villain in these novels, he most likely had more power than what was realistic. Edit: (As realistic as DnD is? xD )

Saying I read it in a novel is like saying I read it on the internet... does not make it true.

I would hope when referencing lore we are useing material that would be considered resource material and from my own personal opinion... Novels are not resource material.

Great stories and such and some actually might follow some actual lore but in the end they are just really good stories and sometimes stray from lore to remain a good story.

So I will stay with the idea of NO Males can not be clergy of Lolth.

Shadow

If we say, yes, they exist, and allow this, then what would guarantee that every second player would not want to own/play one of these "special" characters? What would make these unique ones become common ones...
But if you ask theoretically, then my answer is yes, they exist but very very veeeeeery rare, because as many others said before me, Lolth only gives lesser spells to the males (compared to the females), and they will rather choose Selvetarm who will guarantee full support to them and to the cleric spells.

Ok, first of all, you guys need to read the entire post... Evil provided a reference from a pnp sourcebook that confirms it. Second, as I said in my original post, I DO NOT intend to change the rules of this server, merely that in faerun it is possible. Also, saying that I read it in a book is nothing like saying I read it on the Internet... Because the authors have the express permission of wizards of the coast etc.

If a DM is watching, please lock this thread.

After some digging here you go:

Militant Myrlochar, Order of Soul Spiders

The Militant Myrlochar, also known as the Order of Soul Spiders, is an elite military order composed solely of male crusaders and found in the few dark elven cities where Lolth is revered and males are permitted to enter her priesthood. The Militant Myrlochar directly serve the ruling Matron Mothers of the city in which they are based as agents of uncontrolled destruction, tirelessly hunting any creature designated as their quarry or who interferes with their pursuit and wreaking havoc until recalled, which rarely happens, or destroyed, their most common fate.

This came from the Forgotten Realms Wiki on Lolth.

Shadow