Surfacing is a big deal

Some trends I am noticing that do not lend to the viability of our Underdark.

1. Solo surfacing

Unless you are a surface drow (Jaelre or Ellie) then you do not belong on the surface solo.
It doesn't matter that you have daylight adapt, because from now on Drow characters that are not Jaelre/Ellie will not have the Daylight Adapt feat acknowledged until Level 20 (This simulates the potential time you have spent on the surface).

Exceptions are by special commission regarding solo surfacing, such as blood rites or specific recon/stealth missions.
These must always be DM requested and approved, I want to be a part of this exciting ordeal.

There has been too much soloing by native drow that it has become an issue of Metagaming and griefing, repeatedly.

2. Team surfacing: Raids

I understand that some elements are not available in then UD and you must get them from the surface. But thats not actually true, there are plenty of ways to start up contracts that will get the vital resources you are seeking without doing a solo sneak campaign. This not only encourages RP by also Faction interaction.

I wouldn't mind so much if there were 3+ Drow surfacing, but Drow must have a good reason to go up there. Lloth may be chaotic, but she doesn't want her children to get themselves into a deadly situation by doing something stupid, like soloing. Raids by surfacing are sacred and blessed events! This is the Underdark.

3. Underdark Setting Vs. Boredom

Ok DC 50, I get it. It's easy to get bored in the Underdark when there are no other players around, but you chose to be Drow. Find something to do or Log on as a surfacer until you see others come online. I'm not saying dont solo in the UD, because I like doing 1 on 1 events. The problem is that the potential is gone because there are some who insist on surfacing for no reason other than to grief, grind or mine. This is not appropriate for Lore and really defeats PC accuracy.

We don't have missions or quests like they do on the surface and we have ECL tagged on top of that, but that's the price we pay. Find others that are logged on in the UD and get with them, pass an OOC message "Hey I'm here, its likely that I'll be in this area soon." If your PC's aren't compatible then RP that. If not, grind and pass me a tell if you see me, its likely I'm already observing you.

So many times I'll see 4 or more Underdarkers on and they all will be soloing alone (2 or 3 on the surface) and I scratch my head. You can earn more Xp by Role playing than by grinding (Or Grind together while Rping). This makes intrigue and connections and is good for the story of our realm. Ultimately, it was you that chose this Race and setting.

4. The Alpha Bastards

I've created a special group of NPC's. Their single goal is to wipe out all Drow on the surface. They wont come below nor will they attack groups on the surface (Unless the group asks for that encounter). They are the IC regulators of Lore. They can be beaten, but not any one of the UD PC's can do it alone. They have true seeing at all times and a very high spot, so be warned. I'm rarely going to pop in as DM and correct you if I can help it. Instead these 4 NPC's will show up and handle that business. Yes you will be fugued. If you repeatedly ignore this standard, then I'll deduct Xp and potentially Levels from you. I dont want to, I love giving XP and UD love. But there has to be a line.



Conclusion

It takes a lot of heart and discipline to play a Drow in the Underdark, as if the social standards arent difficult enough, we often have to contend with many restrictions (Space, population, aggressive environment). But it can be done, Underdark RP is The Best there is when done correctly.

ok but if your character is a vhaeraunite and not a jaelre, he can't go on the surface? and why level 20, some rper never achieve the level 20, in my opinion to give too much thing to the high level it's not really normal, because it's not lore wise to have too many high level in a small area.

If you don't like to see player grinding why do you not create a quest for them? if you create quest for them like in pnp a dm for 4 player with each player can use their skills, it could be awesome, no need of a great quest, a normal no need to win token for this and a lot of xp just need to have a fun adventure.

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

Some trends I am noticing that do not lend to the viability of our Underdark.

1. Solo surfacing

Unless you are a surface drow (Jaelre or Ellie) then you do not belong on the surface solo.

OBS: Does this include half drow too, and what is the procedure for a character who either wants their character to become a surface drow, or though role play has been forced too flee the underdark too the hated surface?

It doesn't matter that you have daylight adapt, because from now on Drow characters that are not Jaelre/Ellie will not have the Daylight Adapt feat acknowledged until Level 20 (This simulates the potential time you have spent on the surface).

Exceptions are by special commission regarding solo surfacing, such as blood rites or specific recon/stealth missions.
These must always be DM requested and approved, I want to be a part of this exciting ordeal.

OBS: Perhaps instead of an enforced level requirment how about they just keep a journol here in the forum with all their advenutres and things as well as any things they are doing too try and adapt and when you feel satisfied with what the character has endured you could just send them a pm letting them know they may take daylight adaption on their next free feat?

There has been too much soloing by native drow that it has become an issue of Metagaming and griefing, repeatedly.

2. Team surfacing: Raids

I understand that some elements are not available in then UD and you must get them from the surface. But thats not actually true, there are plenty of ways to start up contracts that will get the vital resources you are seeking without doing a solo sneak campaign. This not only encourages RP by also Faction interaction.

I wouldn't mind so much if there were 3+ Drow surfacing, but Drow must have a good reason to go up there. Lloth may be chaotic, but she doesn't want her children to get themselves into a deadly situation by doing something stupid, like soloing. Raids by surfacing are sacred and blessed events! This is the Underdark.

OBS: Strongly agree here

3. Underdark Setting Vs. Boredom

Ok DC 50, I get it. It's easy to get bored in the Underdark when there are no other players around, but you chose to be Drow. Find something to do or Log on as a surfacer until you see others come online. I'm not saying dont solo in the UD, because I like doing 1 on 1 events. The problem is that the potential is gone because there are some who insist on surfacing for no reason other than to grief, grind or mine. This is not appropriate for Lore and really defeats PC accuracy.

We don't have missions or quests like they do on the surface and we have ECL tagged on top of that, but that's the price we pay. Find others that are logged on in the UD and get with them, pass an OOC message "Hey I'm here, its likely that I'll be in this area soon." If your PC's aren't compatible then RP that. If not, grind and pass me a tell if you see me, its likely I'm already observing you.

So many times I'll see 4 or more Underdarkers on and they all will be soloing alone (2 or 3 on the surface) and I scratch my head. You can earn more Xp by Role playing than by grinding (Or Grind together while Rping). This makes intrigue and connections and is good for the story of our realm. Ultimately, it was you that chose this Race and setting.

4. The Alpha Bastards

I've created a special group of NPC's. Their single goal is to wipe out all Drow on the surface. They wont come below nor will they attack groups on the surface (Unless the group asks for that encounter). They are the IC regulators of Lore. They can be beaten, but not any one of the UD PC's can do it alone. They have true seeing at all times and a very high spot, so be warned. I'm rarely going to pop in as DM and correct you if I can help it. Instead these 4 NPC's will show up and handle that business. Yes you will be fugued. If you repeatedly ignore this standard, then I'll deduct Xp and potentially Levels from you. I dont want to, I love giving XP and UD love. But there has to be a line.

OBS: Could you please go into a bit more detail of when these NPCs will appear and what xp and possibly level deduction is for, as this reads it will happen if your character is on the surface and not apart of one of the two factions for drow, is this right, and if so, should the players of characters who have been forced out of the underdark send you a pm explainning their characetrs situation too you?

Conclusion

It takes a lot of heart and discipline to play a Drow in the Underdark, as if the social standards arent difficult enough, we often have to contend with many restrictions (Space, population, aggressive environment). But it can be done, Underdark RP is The Best there is when done correctly.

Nicely summed up, just want too throw this out there, if anyone ever wants help leveling up or is borde and wants some yummy yummy rp or just something random too do, if you see my Taleshia in camp or I am not in the Qu'ella throw me a tell and Taleshia will come running!

Really, part of my enjoyment of this game is making others happy, so im always up for helping out one way or another or RPing till the Rothe come home, Moooooooo ^_^

My problem is that this kind of makes the black archers obsolete somewhat and also makes the people who go around patrolling for drow obsolete too.
Would kind of prefer to see players handle this than NPC's

gandruff wrote:

My problem is that this kind of makes the black archers obsolete somewhat and also makes the people who go around patrolling for drow obsolete too.
Would kind of prefer to see players handle this than NPC's

A bit how I feel. But there are so few of them around that I can also see the need for some DM intervention.

Same here... bumping in on a patrol on the surface made things quite lively

Dorn Morselame wrote:

ok but if your character is a vhaeraunite and not a jaelre, he can't go on the surface?

You can worship Vhaerune and not be Jaelre, House Jaelre is a surface Drow House.

Dorn Morselame wrote:

and why level 20, some rper never achieve the level 20, in my opinion to give too much thing to the high level it's not really normal, because it's not lore wise to have too many high level in a small area.

It does not take long to make level 20, the time spent getting there, with intention of frequently doing surface raids should simulate acquiring DA Feat .

Dorn Morselame wrote:

If you don't like to see player grinding why do you not create a quest for them?

I never said I don't like grinding. There are plenty who will tell you I do give solo quests. But I'd rather see 4 people working together, that part is not up to me.

gandruff wrote:

My problem is that this kind of makes the black archers obsolete somewhat and also makes the people who go around patrolling for drow obsolete too.
Would kind of prefer to see players handle this than NPC's

The Black Archers are in the process of growing their ranks, there is -0- chance that they can regulate the surface entries and exits per lore. Since Lore wise there is a large population of Drow in this region, it only makes sense to have adequate representation for that faction until it can become a player driven presence. But The ALpha Bastards shouldn't need to be summoned if everyone plays fair. When the Black Archers are able to manage this, then The Alpha Bastards will be put on the shelf.

X sky X wrote:

Same here... bumping in on a patrol on the surface made things quite lively

That can happen if you wish to arrange things, but "surface patrols" don't occur without commission. It's not some arbitrary thing that a lone drow can just decide one evening. The Ilharess of Any House should be angry if one of her Daughters/Yathrin were on the surface just to "patrol" That is innaccurate lore wise and very foolish to place such an important member of the Qu'ellar in danger. Drow thrive in numbers.

What I ment is that I am NOT on patrol, I bump in to anti-drow patrols from time to time when I happen to be on the surface for good reasons Which I kind of liked I have to say.

*loves being ambushed by drow on the surface . No further comments.*

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

1. Solo surfacing

Unless you are a surface drow (Jaelre or Ellie) then you do not belong on the surface solo.
It doesn't matter that you have daylight adapt, because from now on Drow characters that are not Jaelre/Ellie will not have the Daylight Adapt feat acknowledged until Level 20 (This simulates the potential time you have spent on the surface).

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

Dorn Morselame wrote:

ok but if your character is a vhaeraunite and not a jaelre, he can't go on the surface?

You can worship Vhaerune and not be Jaelre, House Jaelre is a surface Drow House.

i know, it's why i don't think it's a good idea to stop other drow to go on the surface alone because vhaeraunite are not just Jaelre.

Quick question on this ruling. Zekryn is currently level 19 and is not within either of those groups, instead he is with the Church of Shar. I picked up Daylight adaption at 18 if I recall correctly, so would this rule apply to him? I have my doubts they do but just clarifying such.

I am so confused with this new rule...

So I need to find someone who is willing to grind thousands of beastmen horns for me and make some contract where I umm have to pay him 100 gold each?

This old comment, you made a drow tough luck deal with all the problems is well getting old...

So now we can not do the only 2 surface quests one a week for 2K XP?

I am curious the details on this comment Mindflayer "There has been too much soloing by native drow that it has become an issue of Metagaming and griefing, repeatedly"

Can give details please?

Maybe we should blow up the mine entrance like big cave in and then problem solved no more Drow on surface. And take away all transitions to the surface.

I am very frustrated with this new rule, I do not like it and I think it is bad.


I apologize for my tone in this reply but I think this is just more bad things thrown at Drow players. Sometimes I think we have two servers here not one. Surface/Drow interaction is good but staff seem to think it is only bad.

well, loads of people hire others for material hunting, i dont see whats the nonlogical part about it? whether he/she seeks thousands....or few.

besides theres "black archer" truth..may them be active or not, but there "is" a force who devoted themself only in this task, which any surfacer drow should at least consider them before even travelling...let alone the other lunatic patrolling forces.

So I have learned that one particular player has been coming to the surface and making troubles and forcing PvP.

Is this a new rule based on the actions of one bad player?

I've noticed underdark creatures that give components to make earth essences (myconids) and fire essences (azers). I think honestly there'd be a lot less unnessecary UD excursions to the surface if beastmen weren't the only type of monsters to give out items that can be ground into power essences, and other beasty equivalents for air and water were available down below.

It's a repeated problem over and over and over for over 15 months.


And Lolthite drow - UD Drow - do, in lore, dispise the surface and the surfaces. They just should not be up on the surface unless they are exiles or on raiding parties. This isn't just a casual ruling, its the way the UD drow work. The works of salvatore show this clearly (just ignore drizzt pleeease ! )

The problem of the beastmen horns is something I'll raise with Mindflayer

Yes, precisely Dormouse.

It is within lore to assume the Underdark should have beasties that drop components for power, air, and water essences.

The vast majority of Drow players that go to the surface ONLY DO SO to get materials that they can't otherwise get (either players refuse to trade with drow, or they charge insane prices for the items.) The surface has 2, TWO methods to gain power essences - Kobolds and Beastmen. The UD has NONE.

I feel if this issue of ridiculously uneven resources was resolved, far fewer Drow would risk coming up to solo, and would instead do proper, DM planned surface raids instead.

I believe the current situation of Underdark and Surface are balanced, from my experience when I played a main drow character. Trade exists, it can be done. There are many mercenaries from up there that find themselves down there, and am sure a submitted plan to the Underdark DM to find yourself up in the surface would also work.

Freehaven is a place I totally see catching the eye of Drow by the way

The solution to the problem is not to Bann all Drow from the surface but focus on why the drow come to the surface and give them what they need.

Access to water, air and power essence materials, and some quests to begin with.

Also some higher level areas to help players reach level 20. CR 18+ creatures please. More than one UD DM please.

Some things focused on Drow lore, like the Church of Lolth. If we had other factions down here like so many above this would keep UD players interested.

So many ideas I have to help the UD grow and be fun...But to bring these ideas alive seems impossible. Only so much I can do

Quests are fun agreed, though rp xp is even quicker to get sometimes ! but they are also hard to make.

agreed to the water air and power essences, you need them.

giving away power essence in same conditions to ud is a tricky one imo, considering the savestacking+spellresist on lvl20+ drow, will and can easylly create tears of failure on most casters.

just my opinions ofcourse.

besides what happened to rp?
you guys are hard and rock to play, why not convince a raid event for materials if a house is lacking..in an event you can get more than many in the same time one pc can "farm" alone?

Quote :

4. The Alpha Bastards

I've created a special group of NPC's. Their single goal is to wipe out all Drow on the surface. They wont come below nor will they attack groups on the surface (Unless the group asks for that encounter). They are the IC regulators of Lore. They can be beaten, but not any one of the UD PC's can do it alone. They have true seeing at all times and a very high spot, so be warned. I'm rarely going to pop in as DM and correct you if I can help it. Instead these 4 NPC's will show up and handle that business. Yes you will be fugued. If you repeatedly ignore this standard, then I'll deduct Xp and potentially Levels from you. I dont want to, I love giving XP and UD love. But there has to be a line.

Met these guys they are not nice! and made a really nice change! im running next time

But i think the main issue it just giving some good component spots, beastmen spawns are rapid and in great number and simply put the UD dosnt have a similer option at the moment. ofc get an area witch allows similer harvesting speeds etc and i think the problems solved....


The other option of course is to join house jaelre because you know you want to

Where is the fun if there is absolutely no challenge?
Drow have their superiority in all levels mechanically,

Surfacers have materials.

The UD DM is trying simply to enforce common sense and roleplay, not to completely Ban you from going to the surface.

There are plenty of 'slavers' going on in the surface specially Orc side, what keeps you from pacting with them to have them hunt materials for you in exchange of something they might like in return?

There have been halflings as well showing up in the underdark for a number of reasons, I am sure everything is possible with a plan. This is a roleplay server.

Also remember there's the Auction system which am sure could be, with DM supervision, roleplayed as a network to pass goods in between surface and underdark from a pact of an alliance of trade, just to throw a random idea there.

I know this is going to be a hot bed issue so please forgive me but some things need to happen in order for the drow community to not leave the server over this sort of policy -

First - get my drow quest on the server now. Not this next weekend, or next weekend, or next weekend. but now. This really needs to become a priority over other general server issues, or DM MindFlayer needs to print a retraction here until such time as the surface/UD options even up a bit more (I hear ya Mindflayer - and I agree with what you are saying and feeling btw). This will at least begin to even out the issue of there being nothing for Llothite drow that offers quest-based xp.

Second - Beastmen, snagger-fraggery beastmen and frost goblins, and bugger-flugger power nodes, blah blah blah blah - anyway I think you might know where I am going here. Until such time as essence generation parts are available in the UD you cannot shut out access to these monsters. UNLESS you remove all of the mines form the surface, thus forcing an RP-trade situation to be necessary. Frankly - that ain't gonna happen LOL
I've spoken with the person who has set up the crafting resource system, and I'm pretty sure we agree that additional essence drops need to be added to the UD so as to relieve this issue.

Third - this so of policy needs to go both ways. If an orc, or halfling or moon-elf or what have you comes into the UD without DM support, they should be expecting to be killed by a DM just as a UD drow will now have to expect DM death for stepping onto the surface. Traveling to the UD should be a special and extremely dangerous afair.

Alfie wrote:

giving away power essence in same conditions to ud is a tricky one imo, considering the savestacking+spellresist on lvl20+ drow, will and can easylly create tears of failure on most casters.

It also creates a HUGE RIFT in power between Drow and any surface player. By Lore, Drow should have heavily enchanted, ADAMANTINE GEAR. They're SUPPOSED to be scary and powerful. Right now, Drow are jokes to any number of similarly leveled surface players, for no better reason than they were never given a place underground where they can get essences.

Alfie wrote:

besides what happened to rp?
you guys are hard and rock to play, why not convince a raid event for materials if a house is lacking..in an event you can get more than many in the same time one pc can "farm" alone?

Even if we do a raid, it will take much more planning to get a required amount of people as there aren't very many UD players, and even less who are all on at the same time. NOW we also have to have DM approval. We will not be able to go often enough as there is a demand for the material, and by and large, a lot of players will have to wait for MONTHS with dozens of organized raids to get their materials because Yath and such get first dibs, according to RP.

Also, you will not get as much materials as when you go alone, because now you have to spilt the number between all the players there, OR you have to give ALL your proceeds to whoever is higher ranked than you, or risk being destroyed.

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Freehaven would not catch the eye of any noble Lolthite drow. They HATE surfacers. They don't like paying them, they sure don't like having to deal with them and "play nice."

Also, you cannot access Freehaven directly from the Underdark, which cuts down on a LOT of drow traffic, unless you want us to sprint across maps with our AFK/OOC tags on, to simulate us "not really being on the surface, but needing to get to Freehaven by a underground way that doesn't exist IG yet"

Trade exists and can be done, yes, but it requires TEN TIMES the effort of anyone on the surface, and I think that's a little unfair, considering the UD should have much of these materials as well.

~~~~

Also, surfacers have NO REASON to need to trade with Drow at all. They have the upper hand in ALL negotiations. That's not cool.