Surfacing is a big deal

The whole point of this thread Gandruff is to deter frivolous and random surfacing. It is a big deal. Drow are calculating and cunning. Going to the surface on a whim is inaccurate and irresponsible. Especially alone. A quellars power lies within the strength and presence of it's Yathrin and Yathabbans, do you really believe a wise and considerate Matron would be ok with her priestesses going topside just because they got an itch? Drow may follow the goddess of chaos, but they won't thrust themselves blindly into it. They are tactical and aware of the dangers before they disembark. Even surface raids have advance scouts sent ahead to report an optimal time for a strike. Drow are monsters, and they are brilliant.

The whole idea is to deter whimsical jaunts to the surface.

I want to make such a thing special, an honor and blessing to be selected for. But solo acts go up there as frequently as my paw paw goes to the toilet.

Answer this, if perma death was applied to this scenario. Would you still make the trip? Alone? 0.o

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

Answer this, if perma death was applied to this scenario. Would you still make the trip? Alone? 0.o

yeah i am ready, if you find necessary to kill my character in a perma death.

I agree on the essence part.

From what i can tell as a whole there are not enough negative concequences for going to the underdark as a surfacer or going to the surface as a drow. I think there should be bigger concequences if you were to die outside of your homerealm, (UD or Surface) say lose a level.(permadeath would be a bit extreme).

I cant come up with an idea to enforce this though, was thinking of making the players who killed the one out of their homerealm screenshot it for a token or something but that might be abused. And doubt DM are eager to keep tabs on players to see if they died.

Loosing a level seems quite a good idea if there is no justified reason for going above ground

Tybold Mine Earth Elementals should drop Power Essences(and be a bit more dangerous, because to be honest they are a little weak compared to the loot they drop). Like beastmen there should be a good chance of obtaining a quick death if you're unprepared there.

Whaddya think?


BTW in a similar vein Tybold mine was supposed to be off limits to surfacers but then that apparently flew out the window eh???? Might be time to start enforcing that as well. I have encountered a lot of people there who if one thought about it at all were either grinding loot and ore or basically looking to grief UD'ers. The "Drow are cunning and despicable" lore is SO IMPORTANT TO ME for enjoying drow gameplay but if Drow have to adhere to that than surfacers would be batsh*t crazy to venture into a known entrance to the UD where the preternaturally dangerous and evil Drow race are known to periodically haunt.

IF perma-death was applied.Please read every word in the sentences that I type instead of jumping to conclusions Dorn. I didn't threaten or imply that it would. I'm trying to point out there there is no fear of death/fugue because we can repawn as often as we like. But a character with one life would strongly re consider spellunking to the top.

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

IF perma-death was applied.Please read every word in the sentences that I type instead of jumping to conclusions Dorn. I didn't threaten or imply that it would. I'm trying to point out there there is no fear of death/fugue because we can repawn as often as we like. But a character with one life would strongly re consider spellunking to the top.

I know you don't threaten or imply that it would, i just say to you it will be the same for my character perma death or not. And if he is kill on the surface with a dm or a player maybe i will do a permadeath to my character.

So, and what of the allready established Drow on the surface hmm? Those not of Jaerle?
(preferably the Freehaven regulairs, some are not Loth or Jaerle linked at all)

Player characters will always NOT be the overal, NPC population. They are the exeptions.

Ticladesign wrote:

So, and what of the allready established Drow on the surface hmm? Those not of Jaerle?

Send me a master list of "All" these Drow and I'll respond to that.

I would love to see the Underdark made much more difficult to access, either coming or going.

The actual Underdark itself could be left relatively safe, but if both the entrances had a set of passages added in between the good stuff and the surface, you could cram these passages with the need for stealth, detection, survival, lore and spellcraft checks. Nothing too intense, but something that couldn't be bypassed without an epic or two in the party.

The DC in coming and going is weak. 5 Invis potions and a will save of 10 will almost guarantee you passing.

This is going to change, even if I have to bribe Mustang or Buce with Monopoly money.

I think what DM_MindFlayer is trying say is this. IMHO

The Drow would not travel the 100's of hours to the realms above, unless it was in:

1) A very large force, for the Glory of Lolth and that house.

Just look at the Map of the Underdark in the Underdark book, the nearest Drow city to Shadowdale is Maerimydra. As best as I can tell. And that is in the Middledark... 3 to 10 miles under the surface of Faerun! That is a LONG way to travel, with a lot of dangers to face.

In the first book Homeland, Drizzt Do'Urden only traveled to the surface once, before he left Menzoberranzan.
And that was a raid to kill surface elves.

2) It would give them a tactical advantage, in the form of items, slaves, magic or power.
I always looked at the Drow as the Sun Tzu's of the Forgotten Realms.
And I have played a Drow in many of a game. Both online and in Face to face games.

Please forgive me if I stepped on any toes... this post was not meant to do that.
It is just that I have read a lot about the Drow over the years. And have a lot on them.
So much so I was called the Resident Drow on another board.

pyro wrote:

Nothing too intense, but something that couldn't be bypassed without an epic or two in the party.

I don't like the idea of epic character, how a rper without grinding a lot and dm support can become epic?

I get that its to stop drow going up on a whim but at the same time I kind of think its going to stop some of the good rp that went on. There's been times on my surfacer i've been wandering at night and suddenly a drow appears and its like 'oh crap run' infact there was one such time my bard literally had to run for her life to shadowdale.

I mean there was at onepoint even mentioning the name shyntra in the royal oak would clear everyone inside there out to search the outlaying areas for drow.

I do understand your point that it shouldnt be trivial and yes drow shouldnt be coming up because they have a bit of an itch but at the same time we're going to lose that interaction and I will be painfully honest drow raids don't work in large groups as while in theory we should have an advantage due to drow racial abilites but the surface has much more higher levels and better gear than we do.
They can but fun for a bit but its only a matter of time before we all get killed, and sneaking doesnt work as have you ever tried to organise a 8 man group to be subtle.

I really do agree with the principle, that is should be harder to get in and out of the UD, that coming to the surface shouldnt be a trivial thing and that there should be things that are only availible in the UD. But at the same time I had been attempting to put some fear back into the surfacers of drow but when the only real interaction will be people watching the drow raid get demolished by the surfacers, and yes it does always happen i've yet to be in a successful drow raid that hasnt ended in our deaths (some of them were deserved I know but still even a small victory would be nice once in a while), kind of well doesnt promote fear more the opposite.

I love lore like the next role player and yes by lore Drow dont go to the surface willy nilly, they hate the surface in general. Not to say the UD have it own dangers and the journey is not a few maps only as we see ingame. On that point the rule make sense however...i think there exist something called too much attention to lore, we are not in the middle of a PnP season that have the same timing and order. It is a 24/7 server and people come and go, to even hint "you cant be on the drow because there no one else and you just go to surface" is very hash. People log in for fun and for some that mean a Drow character as main they love and trying hard to role play and generate stories with.

Sure as it been stated fixing the crafting stuff so the UD have the equal to the surface will likely help and i think that true but it still dont change the 'dead moment' where other Drow players is lacking but on the same turn it important to also remember interaction between surface and the UD should not be blocked or restricted so much it become a chore and not fun, if that really was the intent it almost better to close of the UD entirely map wise.

Drow going to the surface still take a large risk and with the latest rule that defeat and taking a rp out mean UD drow need to retreat to the UD i dont fully see the large problem. Heck i rp one of the long standing oddballs of a surface Drow and i rather avoid large group of surfacers then risk it mean a confrontation, i normal stick to maps that less travel just to avoid the famous anti drow patrol or just cross a map with a hope i dont met them. Just in the same manner i dont normal visit UD anymore. Though in that respect there nothing there that i need like power essence so one more tip toward fixing that side and it help a little.

pyro wrote:

I would love to see the Underdark made much more difficult to access, either coming or going.

The actual Underdark itself could be left relatively safe, but if both the entrances had a set of passages added in between the good stuff and the surface, you could cram these passages with the need for stealth, detection, survival, lore and spellcraft checks. Nothing too intense, but something that couldn't be bypassed without an epic or two in the party.

That will push it to the other extreme like BG.

Where the UD/Surface simply becomes disconnected and two separate parts of a server.

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

The DC in coming and going is weak. 5 Invis potions and a will save of 10 will almost guarantee you passing.

This is going to change, even if I have to bribe Mustang or Buce with Monopoly money.

I think I made a thread on this awhile back.

https://dalelandsbeyond.rpg-board.net/t12447-new-underdark-entrances-exits

nlyh wrote:

That will push it to the other extreme like BG.

Where the UD/Surface simply becomes disconnected and two separate parts of a server.

With proper implementation, scripting and DM involvement that wont happen. There should be some sort of disconnect yes.

When the seperation of the surface and the Underdark happened on Baldur's Gate, almost all the drow players there left.

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

nlyh wrote:

That will push it to the other extreme like BG.

Where the UD/Surface simply becomes disconnected and two separate parts of a server.

With proper implementation, scripting and DM involvement that wont happen. There should be some sort of disconnect yes.

What I'm saying is that if it goes too far in the other direction it will kill the UD dead.

There should never be a disconnect, only regulations on the reasoning behind traversing the two. Which from what I gather is what this thread was about. I'm in agreement with that, but not going beyond it to the point of disconnect.

Some sort of disconnect. ^

Not total disconnect.

Right now, going to the UD or to the surface is just like walking into your own back yard.

I'm going to put a few fences that you have to climb over first.

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

Some sort of disconnect. ^

Not total disconnect.

Right now, going to the UD or to the surface is just like walking into your own back yard.

I'm going to put a few fences that you have to climb over first.

Well yeah

"Disconnect" though is a rather definitive word, that implies a final resolution of discontinued connection between the UD and surface.

I'm not being picky, but there are a lot of players who are subject to confusion on these matters.

I understand what you propose in this thread, and agree. I'd use the term "regulations" though.

There were two non Jaerle / (Eilistraee I dont know.. tbh) Drow in Freehaven, last I played on the server, about two weeks ago. (one of them being my Drowess) There might be more not in my timezone, so I dont know. Nor do I think it's my place to reveal them should that be so.

My Drowess is LN and fits best in Freehaven. I found more significant rp there than the UD during those times.

How it is now, I dont know.

If you want everyone to be so heavily factioned, then it's time to reinstate the Eilistraean faction, beside the Jaerle one, as that is what the lore tells us, right? I'm volenteering.

Ticladesign wrote:

If you want everyone to be so heavily factioned, then it's time to reinstate the Eilistraean faction, beside the Jaerle one, as that is what the lore tells us, right? I'm volenteering.

No. This issue has been addressed and will remain within its current status.

pyro wrote:

I would love to see the Underdark made much more difficult to access, either coming or going.

The actual Underdark itself could be left relatively safe, but if both the entrances had a set of passages added in between the good stuff and the surface, you could cram these passages with the need for stealth, detection, survival, lore and spellcraft checks. Nothing too intense, but something that couldn't be bypassed without an epic or two in the party.

Could the epic encounters be something that disables would be adventurers instead of skilling them? after all sometimes folks want too play rothe characters, perhaps some sort Illithid Slaver that wonders around mindblasting folks and then teleports them too the rothe area in camp for the Illythiiri to perchase? as an idea?

Those that dont want their characters too be perm Rothe could always escape eventualy, be it on their own after investigating a safer route, and those who want to play a rothen end up in the cage and for sale ^_^ could even add an actual cage, whos key you can perchase from the illithid slaver for 1000 gold per level of the rothe perhaps?