Surfacing is a big deal

Lichy Popo wrote:

So anyway I don't wanna step on any toes- just saying any relaxing of rules would have to be across the board to be fair.

I actually agree with that. Many of the player base also feel the same. (That this rule should actually be relaxed)

It was always those going for nonsensical reasons that brought about this ruling in the first place. Shame they had to spoil it.

Still Lichy, I would argue a Vhaeraunian has much more of an argument for travelling in between the two zones than a Lolthite. Lolth wants her followers to remain in the UD, and they might raid the surface once in a blue moon.

Vhaeraunians have a working network between the UD and surface, which can be found in many citations. It might not sound fair in broader terms, but in terms of lore it makes sense. If you wanted to be able to do such things then you could actually play a Vhaeraunian and have a true IC reason to do it.

Still I'm not optimistic the staff would allow this, as I feel there are a few other reasons behind the decision.

Assistant DM_MindFlayer wrote:

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gandruff wrote:

My problem is that this kind of makes the black archers obsolete somewhat and also makes the people who go around patrolling for drow obsolete too.
Would kind of prefer to see players handle this than NPC's

The Black Archers are in the process of growing their ranks, there is -0- chance that they can regulate the surface entries and exits per lore. Since Lore wise there is a large population of Drow in this region, it only makes sense to have adequate representation for that faction until it can become a player driven presence. But The ALpha Bastards shouldn't need to be summoned if everyone plays fair. When the Black Archers are able to manage this, then The Alpha Bastards will be put on the shelf.

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Currently there are six people in the BA's with 4 more or so in the Bastards. Once they get some levels, the faction should be able to manage this. I'll be making a post in the BA forums asking staff to consider loosening this ruling when that time comes.

If only there was some way to regulate "Ridiculous RP" without having collateral damage spill over that effects genuine RP, it would be perfect.

*nod*I understand the draw to the Jaelre specific lore. There are MYRIADS of reasons for a Drow of any sort to go to the surface from the UD or vice versa.

The ideal thing would be to give everyone as much elbow room to possible. Jaelre's are obviously partially crippled rp wise by a ruling like this (not to be dramatic, I know you guys can manage despite it just fine etc) but in truth it effects us all equally. Personally I avoided the surface with my UD main like it was anathema to my very being, but it's been a long time and I now have plenty of growth and knowledge and new IC reasons to poke my head out. Its fun to rp, like everything freaks you out and you are terrified of something you are supposed to loathe and nothing makes sense. And if you don't hurry a giant cursed hellball will appear and make your life unbearable FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

If there was an invisible OOC barrier that only applied to me... well I don't understand why that would be enforced. I do not think a surfacing/descending ban is the best answer to issues. The only good answers I can think of besides it just somehow working out is that there are surface/UD NPCs that hostile you immediately if you fail some kind of disguise check or are seen. In addition, it should be much more difficult to surface/descend.

To expand on what nlyh and Norlamin Arborshate stated it would be good if certain groups had the rules relaxed slightly on all of this. I maintian it is a matter of frequency and a matter of RP that makes no sense hurting groups like UD Drow, Surface Drow, Black Archers, etc. COnflict for as big of a pain as it can be sometimes drives a lot of RP.

Some things to remember that I learned in a year+ of doing this:

• Make it make sense as a player and IC
  
• Do not be a tourist going up or below because you are OOC bored.
  
• Remember you are at war IC, not OOC.
  
• Be patient with each other where possible.
  
• It does not always have to end in PVP
  
• Don't look for excuses to just know it is your IC enemy.
  
• Screenshot ****** everything!!! (Before, during, after PVP)
  
• Staff: support these groups, but do not micromanage them.
  
• Staff: Collective punishment to correct an issue like this is never the answer.
  

The setting is highly important in my view. I often feel some smaller groups, or groups that some staff may not hold any interest in can often be overlooked.

If those small groups fail, then you lose immersion and the glue that binds the setting together. And from there things deteriorate as there is no depth to a server besides Team A vs Team B.

I completely agree these smaller groups should be supported and allowed to nurture to give more flavour.

nlyh wrote:

I don't see a strong RP reason for drow to be in Freehaven on a frequent basis.

Us Jaelre had to go there because there was nowhere else to go. That, and the fact our Stronghold was submitted months ago but still isn't implemented.

I was ordered to live there on Gaussafae and I did until I got bored of sitting next to fire waiting for people to come talk to me. Buce told us we could raid on the surface during the night and many times I have been in a party and been chased from the doors of the mine to wherever we got tired of running to.

Until you can get as much exp, loot, and materials needed for enchanting most of us will continue to go to the surface. I don't think it is fair to hold us to such a small area and tell us we should tough it out because we have the best RP. In case you haven't noticed there are not many Drow logged in at times, maybe making it less hard to play them would make more people play them. If it's too hard to do anything I'll just take my epic level toon and make a new surface toon where I can go anywhere and get anything and even come down to the elementals for a little bit of elemental bashing. Heck, the whole reason I made a Drow elf was because I went to the UD on my surface toon and enjoyed the rp so much that I stopped playing on the surface. Now with the lack of players in the UD and even tighter rules, I just play on the surface. I'm here to have fun, if i wanted a job I would log into world of warcraft

Dormouse wrote:

Loosing a level seems quite a good idea if there is no justified reason for going above ground

As a follower of a goddess of chaos, if i go to the surface and sing show tunes i am well within her domains.

Assistant DM_MindFlayer wrote:

Ticladesign wrote:

If you want everyone to be so heavily factioned, then it's time to reinstate the Eilistraean faction, beside the Jaerle one, as that is what the lore tells us, right? I'm volenteering.

No. This issue has been addressed and will remain within its current status.

They made their own server. The Elistreans and whatnot now have their own playground.

[quote="Jakunen"]

Lambert wrote:

tl;dr version: No. Never say never, and don't place the fate of a character entirely in the hands of a person other than that character's player... and the original idea of this thread sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

Do you know how many times my Cleric of Lolth has let Seadin go from the Underdark? When I get bored of seeing yall's ugly surface faces I let you go.

Just got a question, The Surfacing Policy is mainly aided at Drow but how does it affect Duergar and Free Svirfneblin?

Gorebash wrote:

Just got a question, The Surfacing Policy is mainly aided at Drow but how does it affect Duergar and Free Svirfneblin?

They are treated as Monster Races as per a post earlier in this thread. Not sure about Svirf, since they don't really fit in there either. Svirf are frankly very tricky to deal with as PCs since canonically they exist as: small nomadic bands that run and/or hide from any significant threat (i.e. everything, this being the UD) or slaves to Drow, Duergar or any other more dominant UD race.

Belsarius wrote:

As a follower of a goddess of chaos, if i go to the surface and sing show tunes i am well within her domains.

Drow don't stroll up to the surface for a natter. They just don't. As an aside I do have to say I find the 'chaos' aspect of Lolth's portfolio is blown way out of proportion with the rest of it, but that's a YMMV issue I guess. Having 'Chaotic' in your alignment, however, doesn't mean you're as likely to jump off a bridge as cross it.

Belsarius wrote:

Until you can get as much exp, loot, and materials needed for enchanting most of us will continue to go to the surface. I don't think it is fair to hold us to such a small area and tell us we should tough it out because we have the best RP.

XP above level 20 is the only area with significant imbalance these days, since we now have access to power essence. As for the 'best RP'...I think that's a bit complacent. The UD certainly has some aspects in which it is a better environment (compare RP interactions of day 1 Drow with day 1 Myth Drannorian, on average) but we still have issues that loose us players who stay past day 1, which is probably the best metric for RP quality (though not an absolute one) like the OOC issues between certain members of certain Drow factions, the 'one mistake and you're done for' situation some characters face, the assumption that any given player automatically knows the server's take on various things, the tendency for Yath to dominate to excess in some situations. The aforementioned tendency to ignore five sixths of the primary deity's portfolio.

Awesome sauce. I can go to the Frost Goblins now and not worry about Maya'katcha chasing us off?

I believe Maya'katcha is designated as a surface Drow, not that this is really the place to discuss individual cases IMO.

LOL yeah May'katcha is designated as a surface Drow so no this rule dont stop her from reaching the surface, more the other way around. It prevent her from walking down into the UD

Quote :

They made their own server. The Elistreans and whatnot now have their own playground.

Do you mind? It should come as no supprice given all the trouble they had to deal with here. Not taking sides, but I guess this is the best possible statement on that, as I play on both servers.

There are more surface Drow beside May. (those having the surface drow feat that allows you to spawn in the wilds)

((Alright then, I hate to have to hop in here and regulate things; but let's keep the harshly worded comments to ourselves. Back on topic.))

As the Black Archers begin to become more of a faction, which, as of late, they are... The staff will review this current ruling. As of now; if you believe you have a valid reason to Surface (Be it a planned raid, etc) let a DM know.

Thank you.

DM_Umbra wrote:

((Alright then, I hate to have to hop in here and regulate things; but let's keep the harshly worded comments to ourselves. Back on topic.))

As the Black Archers begin to become more of a faction, which, as of late, they are... The staff will review this current ruling. As of now; if you believe you have a valid reason to Surface (Be it a planned raid, etc) let a DM know.

Thank you.

If you have a valid and genuine reason that requires you come and go regularly (obviously not every five minutes like an elevator) do you still need to ask a DM each time, or can you get something lasting?

I hope the DMs can allow at least Jaelre drow, or Vhaeraunian drow in general, the liberty of being able to cross the UD and Surface with no problem. VH drow don't have their own start location (despite them outnumbering the Lolthites of DB's Underdark as per lore, and being a much bigger threat to surfacers than Lolthites), so giving them that liberty is the least that could be offered.

Vhaeraunites very often operate in drow cities in the UD to either gather information, gather followers or instigate rebellions. Practically every drow settlement of worth would have a Vhaeraunite cell lurking in their midst. So it's neither inappropriate for them to be in the UD.