Power Restructuring Thread [Preliminary Structure is up]

Why do they even need a rank then? What is the point? If they have no power or are not going to be yath'abban until a certain level then why bother with a rank? It only confused new players and the rest of the UD. Lets keep with KISS please. This does not need to require a PHD .

All we really need are



Yath'abban


Yathrin


Yath'tallar


Yath'staglin

Going more into this then we need to is confusing the issue.


And please... The camp is just that, a camp. I love the energy but I really believe that over doing things is just as bad as not doing anything. We are trying to make small changes. Not upset the entire UD. People play on the Dale Lands server UD for a reason. Clearly something right is being done here. There were some upset players so we are trying to make a few subtle changes to fix this. Lets not make sweeping changes and lose just what it is we all enjoy about this game.

Yath'abban
Must be noble.
Must able to cast a prayer spell
Can be CL,FS,WP.
Has no real authority except what is given on a per situation basis by a Yathrin/Yath’tellar/Il’haress.
Equal in rank to common noble drow ranks, such as Velg’larn, Sarg’tlin, Bae’queshel, Faern, etc.
Must show respect and bow to all drow of higher rank, i.e, house masters, Yathrinen, Yath’tellaren, and Il’haressen.
Duties:
Assist other priestesses in rituals
Learn the ways of Lolth
Attend any Yath that are around and follow all of their orders.


Yathrin
Must be noble.
Must able to cast raise dead/slay living.
Can be CL,FS,WP.
Must show respect and bow to all drow of higher rank, i.e, Yathrinen, Yath’tellaren, and Il’haressen.
House Masters must show respect to a Yathrin. However the Yathrin, should show a small amount of respect of the master’s status. Perhaps a *nods* or *a polite bow*.
The Yathrin can issue orders to any drow so long as that drow cannot disobey. If they do, the Yathrin can whip them and then report them to the church for consideration of further punishment.

i.e. Convince the Yath’tellaren to declare him a heretic. (see heresy delarations suggestion in previous threads) . Or the drow can choose to make up a reason as to not be there, if they lie they put themselves at risk if the Yathrin finds out.
A Yathrin’s order should be easy enough to get out of if you need to. Example: Mi’reli orders Naradril to do something. Naradril apologizes and says his Il’haress has ordered him to check the house wardings. Ths is not necessarily true, but Gin has given him a standing order to do so, so it is not exactly a lie. Or he could lie and if Mi’reli want she can investigate and give any evidence to Naradril’s Il’aress and arrange punishment.
Duties:
Perform and develop rituals
Teach all drow the ways of Lolth
Follow the orders of the Il’haressen and Yath’tellaren.
keep the other drow in line
Command and arrange patrols
Give regular offerings to Lolth, weather they be gems, or blood.

Yath'tallar
Must be noble.
Must able to cast Epic Gate and turn undead.
Only Clerics
Must show respect and bow to the Il’haressen and Ulath’tellar
All drow must bow in respect to the Yath’tellar
The Yath’tellar can order any dow to do whatever she wishes. If she is from an opposite house only the direct order of an Il’haress or another Yath’tellar can counter it.
If an order from an opposing house’s Yath’tellar orders another drow to betray or turn on their house’s Matron , Yath or house masters it does not have to be obeyed it is recommended thought that if you are going to deny a Yath’tellar make your wording right.
Duties:
Lead major prayers
Manage the Yath
Rally the drow to do Lolth’s work.
Perform and develop rituals
Teach all drow the ways of Lolth
Follow the orders of the Il’haressen.
keep the other drow in line
Command and arrange patrols
Give regular offerings to Lolth, whether they be gems, or blood.

Yath'staglin
Must have at least 5 levels in BG or Divine Champion with character level 20.
Serves the Yath all Yath.
Cannot take actions against other Yath.
Enfrces the church’s will.

While i dont play in UD anymore i still want to say the noble requirement idea should be removed. Being noble mean being from a major house mostly. Commoners also opt to send a daughter to the Priestess Academy as a way to gain influence or atlest try to.

Please define Noble.

I do not like the way you are currently making it sound....

It sounds to have any title as in Noble.. you have to belong to a Quellar and if that is the case I am not sure I agree

Being noble prevents the emergence of an independent sect of Yath'wannabe's. Without the backing of a Qu'ellar they would be hard pressed to gain admission into the clergy because the nobles would be damned sure to snuff them out. attempting such would be career suicide from the start. The only way it would work is in exceptionally rare cases where the player is so cunning and savvy with the social aspect of our Underdark, they could weasel their way into the ranks. I'm not necessarily saying, it must be a requirement to be a noble. But imagine the difficulty in seeing other characters that are just as active as your surpass you in favor because they are affiliated. The Underdark is like prison, every one who wants to survive finds a clique, the independants are normally the ones who are weak and easily exploited.

So to continue being a Yath'sargltin I will be required to join a House...

And I will need to follow all Yath of both houses .... So how are orders that could affect the House I belong to by a Yath of a different house treated?

For that fact if Noble and Yath are you all suggesting that all should follow your orders from any House? If Yathrin/Ilharess Zaufin orders Quel'saruk Dabel'kith to do something is he suppose to just do it or should there be a line of what one House can do to a another house member... because if the answer is yes the Quel'saruk should do what he is told ... what is the point of Houses?

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

Being noble prevents the emergence of an independent sect of Yath'wannabe's. Without the backing of a Qu'ellar they would be hard pressed to gain admission into the clergy because the nobles would be damned sure to snuff them out. attempting such would be career suicide from the start. The only way it would work is in exceptionally rare cases where the player is so cunning and savvy with the social aspect of our Underdark, they could weasel their way into the ranks. I'm not necessarily saying, it must be a requirement to be a noble. But imagine the difficulty in seeing other characters that are just as active as your surpass you in favor because they are affiliated. The Underdark is like prison, every one who wants to survive finds a clique, the independants are normally the ones who are weak and easily exploited.

That the way of Lloth and the Underdark, the weak and unfit get weed out. It still dont mean it only nobles who enter the cleric, it just mean it much harder.

Also since this is a server i feel it would be misplaced to say only noble can become Yath. Imagine a new character trying to be made, even if the character had being noble of whatever place it hold little meaning in the camp. By making noble a requirement it basic give the signal they have to join one of the existing houses ingame first.

Which to me sound counter productive to the idea of trying to make the church and house matter within it own niche of co-existing ingame.

I dont believe that only nobles should become Yath'whatever, I'm just using a little perspective. If the Yath'Tallars are the ones who ultimately test and hold sway over selection of Elite Church Members then who do you think they will select? A Shebali or a Noble?

Quote :

And I will need to follow all Yath of both houses .... So how are orders that could affect the House I belong to by a Yath of a different house treated?

I suggested interactions to give you an idea. To extent, the Dabel'kith does not have to obey. He should be able to provide a good reason why."My apologies Yathrin, My Il'haress want's me to train in the Mushroom forests to grow strong for Lolth", etc.

Or something along those lines. The Dabel'kith in your example could even lie about something to do. The Yathrin of course can make the effort to research if she wants to, but this could lead her to bad places as she would be dealing with an opposing house's Yath. From my earlier post....

(Naradril is Zau'Afin House Wizard, Mi'reli is Dabel'kith Yathrin.)

Quote :

The Yathrin can issue orders to any drow and that drow cannot disobey. If they do, the Yathrin can whip them and then report them to the church for consideration of further punishment.

i.e. Convince the Yath’tellaren to declare him a heretic. (see heresy delarations suggestion in previous threads) . Or the drow can choose to make up a reason as to not be there, if they lie they put themselves at risk if the Yathrin finds out.
A Yathrin’s order should be easy enough to get out of if you need to. Example: Mi’reli orders Naradril to do something. Naradril apologizes and says his Il’haress has ordered him to check the house wardings. Ths is not necessarily true, but Gin has given him a standing order to do so, so it is not exactly a lie. Or he could lie and if Mi’reli want she can investigate and give any evidence to Naradril’s Il’aress and arrange punishment.

If Mi'reli tries to order Naradril to say, spy on Za'nara. He could easily say, "That would be against my Il'haress's wishes Yathrin." If Mi'reli pushes he could add, "Please Yathrin, my Il'haress will skin both our hides!" If she continues to push the matter escalates to a house matter. If she continues to push and Naradril concedes he can say something along the lines of, "Very well, Yathrin, but Il'haress Zau'Afin will not be pleased that dos have ordered ussa not to follow her orders" This ought to be more than enough to get Mi'reli to give up.

Sorry Shadow, I never intended to put Nobility as a rank requirment for Yath'sargtlin. Was a copy/paste error. Sorry man. I will fix.

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

I dont believe that only nobles should become Yath'whatever, I'm just using a little perspective. If the Yath'Tallars are the ones who ultimately test and hold sway over selection of Elite Church Members then who do you think they will select? A Shebali or a Noble?

So far i agree too. Which is why i say noble as a requirement for joining the church atlest sound wrong. Ofcourse nobles likely get more a easier time and that

If we don’t make nobility a requirement, we should definitely make it harder to join the church if you are not noble.

Quote :

Which to me sound counter productive to the idea of trying to make the church and house matter within it own niche of co-existing ingame.

Experiences of multiple players show the opposite.

From Fuzzie’s earlier post:

Quote :

How do we fix this? How do we bring Queller Priest back to understanding what it means to be a priest as opposed to a daughter of a House. This is Lord Drokes issue. The "independents" basically acted like the first House. They used their authority as priest to over rule the matrons in their own House in non church issues. The Houses could not even function properly anymore because of these independents. This caused the the priest in the Houses to rally together to protect their own members against the "independents". Thus we have the current situation. Priest of Lolth in the Houses, working for their own goals and not really the common good.

Quote :

By making noble a requirement it basic give the signal they have to join one of the existing houses ingame first.

Yes. That is the signal that was intended. Non noble Yath marginalize the houses, it is part of what has put us into this mess.

Making the noble requirement more gonna open a issue later though. If players partout has to join houses to become yath, it will further edge thing toward the entire 'church control houses'. Rather then a yath join to advice the illharess on matter of Lloth we risk multiply yath having to go through two existed houses because of requirement and to make it worse, we put a barrier on the idea new houses are made later on.

star23_16 wrote:

and to make it worse, we put a barrier on the idea new houses are made later on.

This is my biggest (really only) problem with the nobility requirement. Drow Houses rise and fall, die away and are created, and we need the ability to do that on the server. Perhaps if it was made very clear that non-Noble Yath are outranked by Nobles of the same station? And of course, a non-Noble Yathrin who is overly harsh with a Noble Yath'abban might earn the ire of her House, with no such backing of her own, limiting their relative power. Perhaps even hike the spell-level requirement by one for each rank for shebali, simulating the difficulty in acceptance? (presuming we go with spell level)

Shebali will be allowed the rank and titles that go with the Yath. As with any other Noble they must pass certain trials or exams to achieve the coveted station. There is a lot of social play that goes into the selection of new Yath and ascension of current Yath etc. Being part of a noble house (that already has a Yath'tallar) is going to be an advantage over those who run indie, and don't have the support of a Qu'ellar.


It will require more cunning and guile to achieve a rank and possibly encourage formation of another Noble Qu'ellar (Which I would like to see).

The Ranks of the Yath are as Follows (Big Surprise) and some preliminary requisites for each, along with authority cap. -This is a rough draft-

Yath'abban

Spell Level (Any Divine, Must be able to Turn Undead)

Duties
1. Student and initiate into the Church of Lloth
2. Learn the Tenants and Domains of her Matron Deity
3. Exercise her abilities upon anything that threatens herself or the Church.
4. Submit to her superiors if it does not contradict the Tenants or Domains of Lloth, or the Church
5. Prepare for her trials and final exam to become Yathrin

Authority
Non Drow


Yath'rin

Spell Level 7th Circle Divine (Able to cast Ressurect)

Duties
1. Train and Test Yath'abban/Temple Servants in the Ways of Lloth
2. Recruit potential prospects into the church
3. Assist and inform the Yath'Tallars with church business
4. Promote the word and will of Lloth
5. Seek out heretics to be judged by the Yath'Tallars

Authority
Non-Master Noble males
Shebali Males
Shebali Females
Non-Master Noble Females
Non Drow


Yath'Tallar

Spell Level 9th Circle Divine (Able to cast Resurrect, Gate)

Duties
1. Enforce/Encourage the Will of Lloth upon society
2. Interpret signs and messages from Handmaidens
3. Judge and punish accused heretics
4. Test and Train Yathrin to become better advocates for the Church.
5. Hold public executions, church services, and announcements
6. Report all critical issues involving the church to the Ulath'Tallar
7. Conduct council meetings with other Yath'Tallar on important issues
8. Appoint Church Servants (Yath'Sargtlin etc)
9. Collect tithings from the Noble Houses for the Progression of the Church.
10. Communicate with Qu'ellar Nobles, Masters and Ilharess concerning issues that involve betterment of the Church.

Authority
All Males/Females (With Exception to other Yath'tallar [=],Ilharessen[=], Ulath'Tallar[>])
Non Drow


Ulath'Tallar

Spell Level Epic
Character Level 30
Class Restriction Cleric

Duties
1. Directly commune with the representatives of Lloth
2. Test and Appoint Yath'Tallar
3. Make judgments and enforcements that are above the ability of Yath'Tallar
4. Act as a Tie-breaker in the matter of Church deliberation or voting.
5. Divine the disposition of Favor from Lloth on individuals or Qu'ellaren

Authority
All

I love it. +10000000000000 to this.

Ill go along with whatever happens really, im here for the rp and enjoyment of watching all of your plots unfold as well as the rping with all you lovely folks, as long as the above close too the lore and makes sence bring it on! ^_^

Also, ever so slightly off topic, but also kinda on tpoic also, I would just like too stress one thing, If at any point anyone feels that the actions of someones character or the way they are role playing them is decressing your own enjoyment, please dont suffer in silence, speak too them about it in a tell if that does not work seek out a dm.

Better too have things resolved quickly instead of letting them fester and blow out of proportion.


anyhow thats my 2 pennys, lets go for it! Hopefuly this will make things more clear cut, and if it fails we can always go back too the drawing board later.

Nice work everyone ^_^

And could we have a list of acceptable classes with divine casting progression that apply?

Are you asking about Favored Souls? Or is there another you wish to point out?

Kind of.
I'm asking;
For a list of all classes with divine casting progression. ie

Cleric [X]
Fs [?]
Druid [0]
ect...
ect......
Blackgaurd.

Let me try by cases.
Cleric/blackgaurd can cast level 9 devine spells, can she be a Yath'tellar?
Fs/blackgaurd can cast lvl 9 devine spells, can she be a yath'tellar?
the only reason i ask is because Ul'yath'Tellar says it requires cleric 30. This of course make sense. But you know, previously Yath'tellar had a cleric level requirement of 21, i was wondering if that's gone or replaced or what.

the FS/blackguard build arent currently allowed on the server, and I assumed the yathtallar required your main casting thing to be from cleric so a cleric/BG would be ok. Correct me if im wrong

Ah good point, Cleric Spell Level Will determine this. I will revise.

I don't care how you Multi-class as long as it doesn't infringe upon current server policy and your Cleric Spell Level meets the requisites.

No FS/BG are now allowed ... though you have to have at least 6 lvls of BG now.

Quote :

Paladins/Blackguards [ updated Feb 2012]

The Paladin/Blackguard classes are now allowed a limited multi-class with Favored Soul or Sorcerer on Dalelands Beyond. You must have 6 levels of either Paladin or Blackguard by level 20. ie, BG 6 / FS or else Paladin 6 / FS. We also ask that people multi-class the Paladin class in an appropriate manner to paladin orders in generals. While we don't enforce the multi-classing rules of Paladin orders, we do ask you that you not make combinations that are wholly inappropriate for a paladin (for example Paladin/Rogue/Shadowdancer).

Shadow