Power Restructuring Thread [Preliminary Structure is up]

Makes sense, Thank you.
Are there any other classes we haven't mentioned that progress a clerics spell progression?

What do you guys think of this for the Temple Warrior.

The yath'starglin are temple guards. They can be apart of a yath's private guard but for the most part they are there to guard a place and that is the temple. Why not attach the Yath'starglins to the actual buildings and the grounds that are around said buildings. They are in charge of the security of the temple. They answer directly to the yath'tallars with in the confines of their post.

Out side of their "post" if you will, they are shebali unless they are attached to one of the Houses or they are currently a member of one of the Temple Priests guard. As a priestess guard they are incharge of her personal security and have no authority over anything else unless that priestess gives it to them.

FuzzieBunny wrote:

What do you guys think of this for the Temple Warrior.

The yath'starglin are temple guards. They can be apart of a yath's private guard but for the most part they are there to guard a place and that is the temple. Why not attach the Yath'starglins to the actual buildings and the grounds that are around said buildings. They are in charge of the security of the temple. They answer directly to the yath'tallars with in the confines of their post.

Out side of their "post" if you will, they are shebali unless they are attached to one of the Houses or they are currently a member of one of the Temple Priests guard. As a priestess guard they are incharge of her personal security and have no authority over anything else unless that priestess gives it to them.

If you did that, it would put the Yath'sargtlin in charge of the Camp, since the Yath is the primary building, correct?

That would also place the Yath'sargtlin as a Yath guardian in the Qu'ellar, which would place the Qu'ellar as the primary building and its Compound. I don't see anything wrong with it, but it could get tricky depending on what is where.

Each Queller has a temple to Lolth. The temple warrior is only in charge of the temple. I added the grounds because most temples have a courtyard, gardens and various other small buildings. This is what I am talking about. This would not in any way include the camp as a whole or, in the case of the Queller, the rest of the House. That is what the Head Weapons Master is for.

These are specialty warriors. They have a specific purpose and that is to keep the temple of Lolth secure at all times.

FuzzieBunny wrote:

Each Queller has a temple to Lolth. The temple warrior is only in charge of the temple. I added the grounds because most temples have a courtyard, gardens and various other small buildings. This is what I am talking about. This would not in any way include the camp as a whole or, in the case of the Queller, the rest of the House. That is what the Head Weapons Master is for.

These are specialty warriors. They have a specific purpose and that is to keep the temple of Lolth secure at all times.

gotcha !

Got a question, are we going too introduce other ranks like

Yath'Sartlin
Yath'Draada
Yath'Sutrinos


and so on?

Just re-posting since I had a little trouble finding this rank list due to replies - please note, as i have, that MindFlayer states "-This is a rough draft-"

DM_MindFlayer wrote:

The Ranks of the Yath are as Follows (Big Surprise) and some preliminary requisites for each, along with authority cap. -This is a rough draft-

Yath'abban

Spell Level (Any Divine, Must be able to Turn Undead)

Duties
1. Student and initiate into the Church of Lloth
2. Learn the Tenants and Domains of her Matron Deity
3. Exercise her abilities upon anything that threatens herself or the Church.
4. Submit to her superiors if it does not contradict the Tenants or Domains of Lloth, or the Church
5. Prepare for her trials and final exam to become Yathrin

Authority
Non Drow


Yath'rin

Spell Level 7th Circle Divine (Able to cast Ressurect)

Duties
1. Train and Test Yath'abban/Temple Servants in the Ways of Lloth
2. Recruit potential prospects into the church
3. Assist and inform the Yath'Tallars with church business
4. Promote the word and will of Lloth
5. Seek out heretics to be judged by the Yath'Tallars

Authority
Non-Master Noble males
Shebali Males
Shebali Females
Non-Master Noble Females
Non Drow


Yath'Tallar

Spell Level 9th Circle Divine (Able to cast Resurrect, Gate)

Duties
1. Enforce/Encourage the Will of Lloth upon society
2. Interpret signs and messages from Handmaidens
3. Judge and punish accused heretics
4. Test and Train Yathrin to become better advocates for the Church.
5. Hold public executions, church services, and announcements
6. Report all critical issues involving the church to the Ulath'Tallar
7. Conduct council meetings with other Yath'Tallar on important issues
8. Appoint Church Servants (Yath'Sargtlin etc)
9. Collect tithings from the Noble Houses for the Progression of the Church.
10. Communicate with Qu'ellar Nobles, Masters and Ilharess concerning issues that involve betterment of the Church.

Authority
All Males/Females (With Exception to other Yath'tallar [=],Ilharessen[=], Ulath'Tallar[>])
Non Drow


Ulath'Tallar

Spell Level Epic
Character Level 30
Class Restriction Cleric

Duties
1. Directly commune with the representatives of Lloth
2. Test and Appoint Yath'Tallar
3. Make judgments and enforcements that are above the ability of Yath'Tallar
4. Act as a Tie-breaker in the matter of Church deliberation or voting.
5. Divine the disposition of Favor from Lloth on individuals or Qu'ellaren

Authority
All

Lord Droke wrote:

Quote :

And I will need to follow all Yath of both houses .... So how are orders that could affect the House I belong to by a Yath of a different house treated?

I suggested interactions to give you an idea. To extent, the Dabel'kith does not have to obey. He should be able to provide a good reason why."My apologies Yathrin, My Il'haress want's me to train in the Mushroom forests to grow strong for Lolth", etc.

Or something along those lines. The Dabel'kith in your example could even lie about something to do. The Yathrin of course can make the effort to research if she wants to, but this could lead her to bad places as she would be dealing with an opposing house's Yath. From my earlier post....

(Naradril is Zau'Afin House Wizard, Mi'reli is Dabel'kith Yathrin.)

Quote :

The Yathrin can issue orders to any drow and that drow cannot disobey. If they do, the Yathrin can whip them and then report them to the church for consideration of further punishment.

i.e. Convince the Yath’tellaren to declare him a heretic. (see heresy delarations suggestion in previous threads) . Or the drow can choose to make up a reason as to not be there, if they lie they put themselves at risk if the Yathrin finds out.
A Yathrin’s order should be easy enough to get out of if you need to. Example: Mi’reli orders Naradril to do something. Naradril apologizes and says his Il’haress has ordered him to check the house wardings. Ths is not necessarily true, but Gin has given him a standing order to do so, so it is not exactly a lie. Or he could lie and if Mi’reli want she can investigate and give any evidence to Naradril’s Il’aress and arrange punishment.

If Mi'reli tries to order Naradril to say, spy on Za'nara. He could easily say, "That would be against my Il'haress's wishes Yathrin." If Mi'reli pushes he could add, "Please Yathrin, my Il'haress will skin both our hides!" If she continues to push the matter escalates to a house matter. If she continues to push and Naradril concedes he can say something along the lines of, "Very well, Yathrin, but Il'haress Zau'Afin will not be pleased that dos have ordered ussa not to follow her orders" This ought to be more than enough to get Mi'reli to give up.

What Lord Droke is saying here is exactly correct, but often what has often happened in the past is that the male in question, instead of bowing and apologizing with a clever lie or manipulation of the political situation, they tend to get mouthy and rude with some sort of "I can PvP kick your arse" attitude and missing, imho, what is pretty much the entire point of drow role-play, the politics.

Of late, it seems that some of this ignore the lore in favor of PvP bullying situations are becoming less frequent. But I am concerned that they will return in full nasty force with this trend in posting claiming the a yath'abban is "nothing" and of no authority. They are not "nothing" and they do have authority. If they live (which due to the nature of the NWN2 game they always will) they can become full yathrin and as such can and should make those who treated them poorly suffer socially if not physically.

The point I'm trying to get to here is the example of wizard house master Naradril and full yathrin Me'reli aptly presented above should also be considered a good example of interaction between say wizard house master Raye'Khan and yath'abban = insert name here =

Next topic -

LoudDave wrote:

Kind of.
I'm asking;
For a list of all classes with divine casting progression. ie

Cleric [X]
Fs [?]
Druid [0]
ect...
ect......
Blackgaurd.

I would have to say that druid is in no way appropriate for any sort of yath. They would be heretics, as the class cannot worship Lloth. Divine power drawn from a source other than Lloth is pretty much a no-brainer issue for me, Lloth and her priests will not accept it, thus the community will not accept it ("the Spider that Waits" being the only present exception as he is Lloth's servant)

Next topic -

Regarding yath'sargltin -
I have to agree that it should be very very very rare for one to not be a member of a house
AND more importantly - it needs to be clear that they rank below yath'abban since there is no chance at all for them to advance to yathrin. These folks have temple status, but they are not house masters or even student priestess.

Gildren wrote:

Regarding yath'sargltin -
I have to agree that it should be very very very rare for one to not be a member of a house
AND more importantly - it needs to be clear that they rank below yath'abban since there is no chance at all for them to advance to yathrin. These folks have temple status, but they are not house masters or even student priestess.

Wouldn't being part of a House conflict with a yath'sargtlin's duty to the Yath? I'd think that for a yath'sargtlin their house would be, in a sense, the clergy.

SlipSloop wrote:

Gildren wrote:

Regarding yath'sargltin -
I have to agree that it should be very very very rare for one to not be a member of a house
AND more importantly - it needs to be clear that they rank below yath'abban since there is no chance at all for them to advance to yathrin. These folks have temple status, but they are not house masters or even student priestess.

Wouldn't being part of a House conflict with a yath'sargtlin's duty to the Yath? I'd think that for a yath'sargtlin their house would be, in a sense, the clergy.

Nope - this whole thing about the yath be a separate thing from the houses is completely against the lore. A yath'sargltin would more likely to be appointed/accepted as a member of an established house than one who was independent and thus more likely to go "rogue"

Think of the Ul'ath'taller as the "Pope" of the drow faith. The Illharessen as the Kings of various countries. These Kings maintain their divine right to rule over their houses through endorsement of the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller. The "Pope" Ul'ath'taller places/promotes within the King's house a Yath'taller (Arch Bishop) to help influence/control that specific house (as well as the various yathrin, of which the Ilharess is most likely a member). The houses in turn provide the military might for their own use, as well as the use of the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller, thus connecting the Ul'ath'taller's needs to the houses. Should the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller brand an Illharess as a heretic or as one who is disobeying the will of Lloth, she can effectively destroy the Illharess or the house as a whole (either through opening up the opportunity for another to take her throne or for the community to enter in "open killing season" on the entire house).

In order for drow Lloth-ite culture to maintain it religious dominance over the houses, and the community at large, the yath are a direct and controlling part of every aspect of their theocratic culture.

At present, if I am not mistaken, there is only one level 30 cleric of Lloth on the server. Her name is "Elina'keuth Nithandas" (a DM controlled NPC)

There have only been a couple of Yath'sargtlin that met the requirements that had been previously posted... there were others but they did not meet the requirements but were given the title.

Of those only one was put outside of the Quellars... and it was decided at that time by all Quellar Leaders Eclav/Elloril, Liditchi and Shyntra that that would be the case. It was that the Church claimed the Yath'sargtlin and he would work under her authority... back then there was a line between the two... it has only been recently that the line disappeared.

Now I have refrained from my input in to the Yath'sargtlin since I am bias and would like to see what everyones thoughts are on this Station and what role he should play. In the end I will play along the guidelines that are dictated for the role to play.

Now as to Masters... again it had been decided that Edrik was given a Masters Status and was to be part of the Melee Magthere... again this can easly change if that is the way the server decides... I will roll with the decisions. My thoughts on this are simple.. The Yath had tasked that the Yath'sargtlin was to find and train more.. well I am sorry but since none of the Yath can truely train a Yath'sargtlin since unless they can work with the Blackguard spell list then they miss out on the rituals that would be needed to train such just as a Yath'sargtlin could not teach a Fearn or Shadow to do his work.. they need a Master.

My build has never been secret.. Edrik is a 17level Fighter/8 level Blackguard/3 level Divine Champion For roleplaying reasons working with then the Yath'tallaren they wished to see more devotion from the then Weaponmaster and asked that I have at least 10lvls of combined BG/DC to show my devotion not the standard 5 lvls.

But I do feel that the Yath'sargtlin and Dread Fangs could be conflicted in that manner since both are actuall Yath resources not Quellar.

Gilden please tell me where you get that the Yath and Houses are not seperate. I have posted from the 3.5 Drow of the Underdark where it states exactly that. If you are going to say such please post the lore to pack it up ... not some story from a Novel.. but actual Lore.. since it can be stated in many places each city is different and if you would like to state that in DB it is that way.. well it is that way NOW... it was not always that way.

Shadow

SlipSloop wrote:

Gildren wrote:

Regarding yath'sargltin -
I have to agree that it should be very very very rare for one to not be a member of a house
AND more importantly - it needs to be clear that they rank below yath'abban since there is no chance at all for them to advance to yathrin. These folks have temple status, but they are not house masters or even student priestess.

Wouldn't being part of a House conflict with a yath'sargtlin's duty to the Yath? I'd think that for a yath'sargtlin their house would be, in a sense, the clergy.

Again one of many example for Lore to be used as guide. Always can find argument or point of view to support an opinion. I think each Yath'sargtlin is different. A yath'sargtlin of Dabel'kith maybe loyal to the Yath of Dabel'kith first and Ilharess. And not be a Yath'sargtlin of the Church of Lolth.

But I wish to see a standard set that Yath'sargtlin is NOT in que'llar but is only church guardian in charge of others like Black Fangs of Lolth. DLB only has ONE Yath'sargtlin this is Edrik Ryln'ani and he is loyal to Church only not que'llar. Soon if we get the Church of Lolth established I think these little arguments will fix themselves nicely. Yath'sargtlin I think should be Church ONLY not que'llar.

@ Gildren,

Why do you think so very very rare that Yath'sargtlin is not in a que'llar? Yes Yath'sargtlin is NOT yath but I think has more influence within the church than other males. I always think a Yath'sargtlin only loyal to church NOT que'llar is highest ranked male in our DLB Under Dark place.


@ OBS,

Why do you ask this question if we will introduce these other Yath ranks?

Yath'Sartlin
Yath'Draada
Yath'Sutrinos

Yath Sargtlin is a Lore based title. I have not seen any other Yath titles besides Yath'sargtlin. There is no reason to add these other titles as these have nothing in the Church Lore.

Zau'afin has the Yath'queshel title and is unique to Zau'afin only. Zau'afin has a 5th string of the house and has made a Female Bard a house master. In charge of other Bards of Zau'afin. When Zau'afin was first made I think Nil'kah and another bard were welcomed into Ilharess Eloril's family. This Yath'queshel title is a housemaster title for Zau'afin only. Nil'kah was first Yath'queshel of Zau'afin under Ilharess Eloril and Yath'tallar Eclav. And I say again this title is only for Zau'afin housemaster inside Zau'afin family. So I do not understand why Dabel'kith players always have OOC anger of this Yath'queshel title. Ilharess can make any title inside her own family, it is Matron mothers house she do what she wants.



Kind Regards

Vilesinger

This has been a DLB Standard for over 1 year now

https://dalelandsbeyond.rpg-board.net/t2052-rank-stations-progression-in-the-qu-ellar-of-lolth-work-in-progress

Yath'sargtlin

Requirements: 5 levels of black guard or Divine Champion

The Yath’sargtlin is a blackguard of Lolth, a warrior committed to the

furtherance of their own religion and the extermination or subjugation

of others. This is the highest rank that even a male can hold in the

Yath and are the only ones allowed into the Yath without fear of death

without an accompanying Yathrin.

Yath’sargtlinen are required to bow to members of all of the Yath. The Yath’sargtlin should bow to

higher-ranking members of allied Drow guilds and accord them the same

respect as their own superiors. . The directives of ranking members of

the Yath may supercede the orders of the secular if the ordering member

of the Yath is of equal or higher rank than the secular member. The

blackguard of Lolth serves the Yath, and they are prepared to lay down

their own life, as well as that of heretics, in the pursuit of Yath

goals. Yath’sargtlinen are deeply devout, and should be intimate with

our religion and act as an example of commitment to Lolth or Selvetarm.

A mortal imbued with fiendish cruelty, the Yath’sargtlin is a knight most

foul. This unholy warrior is steeped in the divine energy of Lolth or

Selvetarm, self-appointed Champion of Lolth. Consort of demons and

demonic arachnids, the Yath’sargtlin is hated and feared by all,

especially other male drow who are jealous of the heights of power to

which he has risen. Yath’sargtlin must make an unholy pledge to Lolth or

Selvetarm.

Gildren wrote:

Nope - this whole thing about the yath be a separate thing from the houses is completely against the lore. A yath'sargltin would more likely to be appointed/accepted as a member of an established house than one who was independent and thus more likely to go "rogue"

Think of the Ul'ath'taller as the "Pope" of the drow faith. The Illharessen as the Kings of various countries. These Kings maintain their divine right to rule over their houses through endorsement of the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller. The "Pope" Ul'ath'taller places/promotes within the King's house a Yath'taller (Arch Bishop) to help influence/control that specific house (as well as the various yathrin, of which the Ilharess is most likely a member). The houses in turn provide the military might for their own use, as well as the use of the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller, thus connecting the Ul'ath'taller's needs to the houses. Should the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller brand an Illharess as a heretic or as one who is disobeying the will of Lloth, she can effectively destroy the Illharess or the house as a whole (either through opening up the opportunity for another to take her throne or for the community to enter in "open killing season" on the entire house).

In order for drow Lloth-ite culture to maintain it religious dominance over the houses, and the community at large, the yath are a direct and controlling part of every aspect of their theocratic culture.

At present, if I am not mistaken, there is only one level 30 cleric of Lloth on the server. Her name is "Elina'keuth Nithandas" (a DM controlled NPC)

I only brought it up because, using your example, I viewed the Yath'sargtlin as being comparable to the Swiss Guard of the Papacy, an organization which owed its loyalty to the Pope and Pope alone. A independent military force acting within the authority of the Yath and the Yath alone just seems more sensible than one which owes allegiances, on a case by case basis among different Yath'sargtlin, to different Qu'ellar. What's to stop infighting when a Dabel'kith and Zau'Afin Yath'sargtlin don't see eye to eye when their Ilharesses have a falling out? Or are the Yath'sargtlin expected to fight among one another when Qu'ellar resort to violence? I'm partly asking all these questions because I've played with the idea of creating a Yath'sargtlin.

Vilesinger wrote:

@ Gildren,

Why do you think so very very rare that Yath'sargtlin is not in a que'llar? Yes Yath'sargtlin is NOT yath but I think has more influence within the church than other males. I always think a Yath'sargtlin only loyal to church NOT que'llar is highest ranked male in our DLB Under Dark place.

Hi Nanga =)
If you want my personal opinion regarding Eldrik, I think he might be that very very very rare acceptation, but in the end that is not going to be my final call regarding the matter *shrug* But in order to avoid situations with Eldrik killing another higher ranking member of the community in defense of a lower ranking member he likes better for one reason or another (an example of 'rogue behavior' that did happen many months ago) the over all argument of house membership is still of worth imho

Yes I killed the group of Dabel'kith at the fire after they attacked me when I attacked a House Master for beating a Yath'abban.. It is not the House Masters place to do such but the Yaths... so if you take into account what has been posted that I am to protect and uphold the Yath... are you suggesting I should allow a House Master to touch a Yath .. Edrik believes that is held only for the Yath to discipline one of their own... Sabanna should have reported it to the yathrin or Yath'tallar... she took it upon herserlf a non Yath member to touch a Yath resource... as I have said.. I have never seen the Quellar.. in my world it is Yath and everything else.. so Rogue tendacies is not the right wording to use to describe that. I have stood on both the Zau'afin side as well as the Dabel'kith.. I have never stepped in on one Yath disciplining another even if they are of different Quellars.. I have been beaten so many times by a Yath and have yet to raise blade to one... In my world I will react when I see non Yath that thinks they can touch a Yath.. but again that was the role I was given to play.

But since the Yath in question was also his wife you figured it differently... the only favourtism shown is to Yath.

Shadow

Gildren wrote:

Nope - this whole thing about the yath be a separate thing from the houses is completely against the lore. A yath'sargltin would more likely to be appointed/accepted as a member of an established house than one who was independent and thus more likely to go "rogue"

I very much disagree I am sorry to say with your thoughts that Yath'sargtlin is only part of the que'llar.

Gildren wrote:

Think of the Ul'ath'taller as the "Pope" of the drow faith. The Illharessen as the Kings of various countries. These Kings maintain their divine right to rule over their houses through endorsement of the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller. The "Pope" Ul'ath'taller places/promotes within the King's house a Yath'taller (Arch Bishop) to help influence/control that specific house (as well as the various yathrin, of which the Ilharess is most likely a member). The houses in turn provide the military might for their own use, as well as the use of the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller, thus connecting the Ul'ath'taller's needs to the houses. Should the "Pope" Ul'ath'taller brand an Illharess as a heretic or as one who is disobeying the will of Lloth, she can effectively destroy the Illharess or the house as a whole (either through opening up the opportunity for another to take her throne or for the community to enter in "open killing season" on the entire house).

In order for drow Lloth-ite culture to maintain it religious dominance over the houses, and the community at large, the yath are a direct and controlling part of every aspect of their theocratic culture.

At present, if I am not mistaken, there is only one level 30 cleric of Lloth on the server. Her name is "Elina'keuth Nithandas" (a DM controlled NPC)

I do agree very much with these comments. This is very helpful and explains a lot, thank you.

Quote :

Yath Sargtlin is a Lore based title. I have not seen any other Yath titles besides Yath'sargtlin. There is no reason to add these other titles as these have nothing in the Church Lore.

Yath'sargtlin is a specialized title. You would not see Yath'Sutrinos for example because the Yath'sargtlin is not a basic Sargtlin. It is a specialized rank of honor given by the church. The church would only give it to the strongest and most holy (or Unholy) warrior. The church does not technically train these warriors. They are hand picked, so the other Yath'warrior ranks would not exist as there is no progression to the rank. Hope that is understandable, took my best crack at an explanation.

Quote :

his Yath'queshel title is a housemaster title for Zau'afin only. Nil'kah was first Yath'queshel of Zau'afin under Ilharess Eloril and Yath'tallar Eclav.

I have been thinking a lot about this. It seems the biggest point of contention anyone has is not the rank of the Zau'Afin singers. Only the phrasing of the title. The Yath in YATH'queshel is throwing people off and creating confusion. People see that Yath in the name and assume that she is part of the Yath. This is only logical.

Fact is, the Zau'Afin singer rank and status is correct per lore, if you research it. What is not, is the title itself, not the rank or status. I will be bringing this up in the internal house threads to see where people stand and think.

Quote :

I think should be Church ONLY not que'llar.

I agree and disagree. Technically, the majority of the Yath is made up of clergy that run the Qu'ellars, I see no reason why each house temple can not have it's own Yath'sargtlin. So long as the Jaluk in question, sticks to house temple and other Yath duties and makes an effort to stay out of other house affairs.

My biggest question with Yath'sargtlin is:
What is to stop the Yath'sargtlin, any Yath'sargtlin, weather housed or unhoused from deciding any command from a housed Yath is not inline with the Yath? This issue is even more prominent when you have a yath'sargtlin who is not housed.

One thing that should be noted about Yath'Sarg'tlin. It is not any jaluk's place to say or decide what is or is not a Yath matter or is not a matter of Lolth. That is the Yath's job. The Yath'sargtlin is the Yath's guard and weapon. Weapons do not decide, they are wielded.

Shadowwolf wrote:

Yes I killed the group of Dabel'kith at the fire after they attacked me when I attacked a House Master for beating a Yath'abban.. It is not the House Masters place to do such but the Yaths... so if you take into account what has been posted that I am to protect and uphold the Yath... are you suggesting I should allow a House Master to touch a Yath .. Edrik believes that is held only for the Yath to discipline one of their own... Sabanna should have reported it to the yathrin or Yath'tallar... she took it upon herserlf a non Yath member to touch a Yath resource... as I have said.. I have never seen the Quellar.. in my world it is Yath and everything else.. so Rogue tendacies is not the right wording to use to describe that. I have stood on both the Zau'afin side as well as the Dabel'kith.. I have never stepped in on one Yath disciplining another even if they are of different Quellars.. I have been beaten so many times by a Yath and have yet to raise blade to one... In my world I will react when I see non Yath that thinks they can touch a Yath.. but again that was the role I was given to play.

But since the Yath in question was also his wife you figured it differently... the only favourtism shown is to Yath.

Shadow

*smirks* When is Nanga not in the middle of Drama? *hugs to all*

But I do think Edriks role as a Yath'sargtlin in this example was correct. Back then Nanga was a Yath'abban and the Yath'sargtlin acted proper. And like Shadow said, the Yath'abban also was his wife/mate.

A temple warrior is just that. He is there to guard the actual temple of Lolth. He controls temple security. If he is an independent or shebali then he can either apply to one of the houses to join or the High Priest to become a member of her guard. If he becomes a member of her guard then his duty is to her temple. He does not have any special status outside the temple other then the obvious.

Inside the temple or on temple grounds, he answers directly to the High Priest in matters of security. He is a holy warrior but not a priest. Out side of the temple he is a shebali or what ever house rank he holds. Inside, you disrespect him at your own peril and you risk seriously offending the High Priest.

Droke please expand on this:

Quote :

One thing that should be noted about Yath'Sarg'tlin. It is not any jaluk's place to say or decide what is or is not a Yath matter or ir or is not a matter of Lolth. That is the Yath's job. The Yath'sargtlin is the Yath's guard and weapon. Weapons do not decide, they are wielded.

Are you saying they should only sit and wait for orders to be given? If you want to use the sword analogy ... then to wield one properly takes training since in the untranied hand it can just as likely slice the wielder than the object the wielder was intending to strike.

Shadow

Quote :

Inside the temple or on temple grounds, he answers directly to the High Priest in matters of security. He is a holy warrior but not a priest. Out side of the temple he is a shebali or what ever house rank he holds. Inside, you disrespect him at your own peril and you risk seriously offending the High Priest.

No... even outside of the Temple he is still an agent of the Yath.. his powers do not stop at a gate or wall that surrounds the Church... and Every City has a Church of Lolth as the dominate structure of the City... not each Quelllar... yes each Quellar has its own inside its doors but there is a very large structure in each Lolthite city. So if it is not part of the Quellars how do we figure it gets there. I mean even the Vatican is a seperate place outside of Rome and has it own guards and forces.

Are you saying that any Shebali who enters the Church of Lolth outside of its gates are just Shebali and not Yath? So far I have not seen a requirement for any Yath to be part of an actual house before they can gain title in Mindflayers list.

Lord Droke wrote:

My biggest question with Yath'sargtlin is:
What is to stop the Yath'sargtlin, any Yath'sargtlin, weather housed or unhoused from deciding any command from a housed Yath is not inline with the Yath? This issue is even more prominent when you have a yath'sargtlin who is not housed. One thing that should be noted about Yath'Sarg'tlin. It is not any jaluk's place to say or decide what is or is not a Yath matter or is not a matter of Lolth. That is the Yath's job. The Yath'sargtlin is the Yath's guard and weapon. Weapons do not decide, they are wielded.

Droke,

Your words I like. The Yath'sargtlin is a position of responsibility. Just like the Yathrin title. There is no perfect answer to your thoughts. Drow Lore is complicated! And has many back door entrys to change things as someone wants. I think a Yath'sargtlin is not an average Jaluk, but is a very intelligent tool of the Yath. Some flexibility should be given to a Yath'sargtlin to make decisions. Like many of my arguments before for Yath responsibilities, a standard needs to be set for Yath'sargtlin Roleplay here on our little world of DLB. Us players need firm guidlines to help our RP, so that all of us in the UD have common place for our rp.

I think it is good to make a Yath'sargtlin a title given by the Yath characters. We do not want a new player making a blackguard then declare themselves Yath'sargtlin. What we want is a player to have all prerequisits for the Yath'sargtlin PRC and then Yath characters promote the Sargtlin to Yath'sargtlin. hmm i hope I explained that the way my brain was thinking it

I think the simplest way to do this is make the Yath'sargtlin a church tool only not a que'llar tool. If we have que'llar Yath'sargtlin walking around this will only take away the unique RP of a true Church only Yath'sargtlin. Soon we will have the Church Of Lolth established and growing, it would be nice to have special titles within the Church only like Yath'sargtlin, dread fangs and others I can not think of right now.

Maybe you all can tell I am pushing hard for Church of Lolth. I think this will make our UD BETTER and more fun for all..

Kind Regards
Vilesinger

I guess my question is why would a yath'stagalin have any authority outside of the temple? He is not a priest and will never be one. He is a powerful warrior and disrespecting him could piss off the High priest he belongs to but other then that... What authority outside of a temple, would he be accorded? If he is given a command by the high priest then clearly he can has something to work with. But if he is not a noble or a priest...

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Are you saying they should only sit and wait for orders to be given?

No, absolutely not. I can best explain what I am getting at with an example:

Li'lith gives Edrick an order. He decides her orders come from a house view rather than a Yath view and either disobeys the order, or disregards it based in his perception of what is or is not a Yath matter, rather than disobeying do to another Yath'tellar's order. I'm not saying Edrick would do this, or that you would have him do so. My question and issue is what would stop Edrick?

Another question, if an un housed Yath'tellar gives the Yath'sargtlin an order, and than say, a Zau'Afin Yath'tellar gives a contradictory order...who does he follow? Is it for him to decide who is truly speaking for the Yath and who isn't it? Will he simply decide that the un-housed Yath'tellar has no biased since she is un housed and obey her over the Zau'Afin?

In my view he would obey the Zau'Afin, noble over Shebali.